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Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable
@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

my Peplink router won't recognize that an ethernet cable is connected. It sometimes shows "Connecting..." and sometimes "No Cable Detected". (see attached screenshots)

The screen shots aren't there, so far as I can see. This is a cable continuity problem; "no cable connected" means one or other pair is intermittent or open circuit or maybe the channel pairs are swapped.

In this case test end-to-end, or rather end-to-middle. I.e. use an ethernet cable connector from the Neutrik to the RJ45 that goes into the McCown and make sure it's showing the right connection. In this case that is 1-2, 7-8 straight through and 3-6/4-5 swapped; the tester needs to be one of the ones that shows the actual connections, not just pass/fail. Then check from the McCown data in/out RJ45 back to the RJ45 that goes to the router; the connections should be identical to those on the other side. A simply way of doing this in one shot is to take the RJ45's that go into the McCown and plug them into an ethernet pass-through connector. Then the two ends (Neutrik-router) should show straight through. The shield should be continuous in all cases.

Most likely this will be fine; if it isn't fix the problem by testing segments of the link. My original design was like yours; I swapped blue/green pairs before and after the PoE. I came to the conclusion that I don't like this because the wiring of the PoE connections to the antenna is just plain deadly for any normally wired passive PD so I am moving to swap blue/green as soon as possible out of the antenna (that would be the cable to the Neutrik in your case) then back again immediately after the data in/out port of the injector. That's just so much safer.

You can also check the McCown jumper setup; for some reason mine was shipped with the StarLink power arrangement so it had to be changed for "normal". If you plug the McCown in with the PSU disconnected then use a tester on RJ45s at each end (e.g. plug the end RJ45 into the RJ45 port on the NF-488 and do a continuity test) you should see each pair shorted. If you pull all four jumpers off the McCown that should be the only shorts. With the jumpers in the correct positions IRC 1236 should be shorted together along with 4578 (so both pairs are connected in each channel). Once again don't quote me on this - check very carefully!

If you have a good straight-through connection all the way then you need to suspect that the SPX connector into the antenna is fried. This is what happened to my original 75ft cable; I've split and tested the thing all the way back to within 10cm of the connector and orange is shorted (30ohm) to ground, apparently somewhere inside the connector at the cable end. My test kit consists of a broken open StarLink ethernet dongle with the cable cut and an RJ45 plug crimped onto the thick wires. I can plug the SPX connector from the antenna end into this then take the RJ45s on the two ends and do a continuity/cable test. Once again the connection should be straight through in your setup; in mine it is too but that is because I have both RJ45s with blue pair/green pair swaps.

I had cabling problems all the time I was doing this; my error mostly. I found that I can verify the cable setup correctness by plugging the RJ45 that goes into the router into a switch. If everything is wired correctly the switch detects a 1000MBit connection to the antenna about 5s after the power is connected. In fact the router can then be plugged into the switch and it should all work; the switch gives you access to 192.168.0.0/16 so it's possible to see what is out there...

You can also check the resistance of each pair while connected to the antenna with a suitable breakout RJ45 and testing with the PSE disconnected. This helps if there is some poor connection in there. I can't find the core resistances of the Wurtz electromagnetics but you should see each pair with a resistance just a few ohms. When I measured I was seeing maybe three ohms across correctly connected pairs. You should also see a low resistance between the two pairs corresponding to + and the two corresponding to - and around 30kohm between + and -

  • I purchased the Starlink ethernet adapter, and inserted it into the stock setup. So I'm using the SL router for power. Peplink is still showed "Connecting...", forever.

That sounds exactly like my original problem! My 75ft cable antenna connector was fried and the router was fried. With a new cable, a new dongle and the original router I had an internet connection but no ethernet on the dongle. Somehow the short in the SPX connector had killed something in the router that makes the dongle work. Once again plug the RJ45 from the dongle into a switch and see if the lights come on. It took me about 2 weeks to persuade StarLink customer support to send me a new router. At the end I'd already bought a new cable and they didn't respond to my request to refund that cost.

The SPX connector is pretty much garbage. In my case I plugged it in in summer and it failed in winter. I can only assume that the very small amount of water vapour in the sealed chamber that is created when the plug is inserted condensed and shorted enough out to fry the plug. The jack in the mast can apparently be pried out; I'm very tempted to pull it out, cut it off and solder cable directly to it with a swapped RJ45 at the end.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

the hAP is operating in Bridge mode, between WAN and WiFi. the WAN port status is "Link OK, running, not slave", but no significant traffic is flowing over this port.

Connect to the WiFi then connect to http://192.168.100.1 (HTTP, not HTTPS). This will give you the antenna web page. Go to Settings/Advanced/Debug Data, scroll down to "DISH" then scroll down even further until you find "EthSpeedMbps"; it should be 1000, but if there is a cable wiring problem it still works but at 100Mbps or maybe lower. I had orange-white disconnected on an RJ45 jack and I got 100... The debug data can be copied by clicking on the weird pages icon at the top right; this makes it easier to read.

You may need to add a static route to 192.168.100.x on your router to get to the page, though it will probably work just changing your machine IP to 192.168.100.42

EDIT: for that matter, given that there are four LAN ports, just plug both the StarLink and the Peplink router into two of the LAN ports (in bridge mode they should all be LAN ports, but to be safe use the ones that are marked as such.) The MikroTik:

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT

is just a switch in that mode and if the switch can get packets in it should have no problem sending them out to the router.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I measure any of (1,2,3,6) to any of (4,5,7,8) as 3.4 to 3.6 ohms, on cable connected only to dishy.

That's correct if the cable is not swapped, i.e. you are checking the surge-suppressor connection, not the jack to the McCown (since you put the swap between the two). On regular PoE wiring groups (1245) and (3678) are connected together (via the centre taps of the electromagnetics, and ideally some diodes). In either case the resistance between conductors from each of the two groups should be the PoE signature resistance, I measured it at around 30k.

I no longer have any switches :(

A bridge is a switch and the two LAN ports on the Peplink are too. I'm suspicious of ethernet channel 1 (1236, unswapped) because the Peplink ports are apparently only 10/100Mbps, so they only use channel 1. Hence my suggestion to check the debug data and to try dish->MikroTik->Peplink

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I very briefly got access from PC<>SL ethernet adapter<>Dishy with 2nd SL router and original cable. 40Mbps Up/.04 Mbps down. I could see two devices (PC and cell phone) attached via my cellphone Starlink app. Then the app showed 0 devices attached and all data stopped! Now the app shows my cell phone attached, but not the PC.

There are three ways of getting information from the dish; the router if it is connected to the dish, 192.168.100.1 (dishy.starlink.com) which may not work if the StarLink router is connected (so far as I can determine) and, most useful in this case, the StarLink app on your cell connected via the internet; not via the StarLink router.

The latter connects to the antenna via the satellite. No working local network and no StarLink router required. It should display "ONLINE" and the debug data ("THIS DEVICE") should show "Non-StarLink IP address", though if your are connected to the internet via the dish it will show "Starlink IP address". At this point you can "COPY DEBUG DATA" and paste it into something useful, like an email. This is the only way other than 192.168.100.1 of getting the full debug data; the StartLink App displays a sanitised version and it has to be copied out of the app.

Even so the only information in the debug data about the local connection is the speed of the connection.

I can see how if Dishy won't provide any IP to my PC, it won't with a DHCP-configured WAN port on a router, either.

The dish does provide an IPv4 to the router; it doesn't need to be statically configured. I believe it is using DHCP but it's supplying a CGNAT address; the address it provides is the one on the internet side of the gateway. It may well be that there is only one of those per antenna and that it just gets bridged across the antenna, indeed that seems most likely.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

I used a GL.iNET Slate (AR750S) in Access Point network mode (basically a bridge mode).

The AR750S also has 10/100/1000 ports, like both Mikrotiks.

Dishy<SL original cable>SL ethernet adapter<>SL Router #2 
                              ^--<eth cable>GL.iNET router<eth cable>Peplink router

The images you posted aren't coming through but I assume this didn't work. It's triple NAT; SL Router #2 isn't in bridge mode so SL Router #2 is offering DHCP in the 192.168.1.0/24 network and it offers it on the ethernet adapter too. The AP is irrelevant; the Peplink gets some random 192.168.1.x IPv4 on its WAN port (this should show up in the Peplink management pages) and tries to add a third layer of NAT to that.

There's a point of failure with the Peplink but it's a failure in a far simpler system where the Peplink is connected directly to the dish. If you want the StarLink router in the picture for power and, more important, customer support put SL#2 into bypass mode and use the above system including the GL.iNET router, at least to start with, to make sure you get 1000Mbps connection lights on the GL.iNet. If you do you should get a Peplink connection that works or at least fails without complaining about broken cables.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 10, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 10, 2023

ethSpeedMbps: 100, in three different status snapshots.

At least one of the eight conductors is broken or shorted, or, worse, the magnetics inside the antenna are damaged. The fault is intermittent. That's better; it suggests a fried connector which from what you have said would have to be the dish jack or the cable dish-end plug. I suggest connecting Dish->latest official StarLink cable->StarLink Router#2, copying the debug data and editing out everything except the ethernet speed, which will apparently be 100 but should be 1000, then opening a customer support ticket, or reopening the one that got you SL#2 and demanding a fix. If they haven't sent you a new cable yet they will, eventually.

The traditional cable-guy approach is to walk round the connectors and wiggle the wires going into and coming out of them. Sooner or later the problem becomes non-intermittent. If you can repro the 100 speed with the stock kit then my experience with the stock StarLink kit is that a connector is fried. I saw several (3 or 4) stress points in the 75ft cable and I stripped out each of those until I was left with the connector and 10cm of cable. It was also a double failure; when the connector on the end of the cable fried replacing the cable wasn't enough, the router had to go too.

If you don't want to deal with Customer Support and assuming the 100 problem exists in the stock kit you could try cleaning out the connectors. I did this but have so far been unable to remove the (30 ohm) short in the plug hence my previous comments about removing the connectors from the antenna end.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

@morehardware
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I think I figured it out. These connectivity problems had to do with power and POE. In typical POE applications the switch injects DC 48V that after 100 meters transmitting, drops the voltage down to DC 39V which can still satisfied the requirement. The Starlink POE need way more juice than typical POE devices. I got my configurable high power 12v powersupply and learned some things after finally adjusting it to a point where I got a consistent successful Starlink ip connection with speed. The power supply has three adjustments, Input power under voltage protection, current and output voltage. When you attach a 12 volt power supply, there is a yellow LED which indicated that the unit incoming voltage is set too high (default 24 volts). The under current (UV) pot is turned counterclockwise till the yellow light goes out. Next I adjusted the output voltage to 48 volts. I left the current as is since I dont have a good current meter. This initial setup failed like all my other setups. the computer would see the ethernet cable, try to handshake, then disconnect in a cyclic manner. Next I turned up the voltage to 56 volts and the same thing happened but in a longer interval. I watched the powers supply while it was cycling and noticed that the low voltage protection light would flash ever so slightly followed by a loss of connection to DISHY. Basically a warm reset. I think what is happening is that the power demand when the DISHY boots drops the input voltage to a point that Dishy reboots. I then adjusted the current higher but it kept cycling at the same interval. Then I adjusted the low voltage protection lower to the point where I no longer got an led flash when DISHY booted and that has led to a stable 12 volt setup.

This power supply worked when the Cheapo Chineese Bricks, and the Mean Well did not. It has no Documentation in the box but if you read the QUESTIONS AND REVIEWS you can ascertain how to adjust it. Some comments also claim success with the Starlink as well.

DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NM52VV5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@WIMMPYIII
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well, i followed the instructions here with swapped connector from the dishy cable to the Tycon, then the swapped connector to a normal t568b to the router, and nothing happens when i plug it all in. i've got a power switch on a 24v->48v boost transformer which can push 250w. that unit does actually light up, but nothing happens to the dish when i plug it in. no ethernet light goes on on the router port. any ideas?

Try with dishypowa or "800 gige poe apc"

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading IMG_20230207_184808.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading PXL_20221221_045705930.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Uploading Screenshot_20221107-143754.png…
This is the one that comes it a enclosure. Slightly different layout but pins are the same.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

the one aspect of your suggestion that i feel has merit is the precision required for terminating the connectors. it's entirely possible that my RJ45 crimping tool is inadequate for shielded through-connector termination. i'll have a go at making a "normal" patch cable out of the many dozen feet i've got remaining of the starlink cable, and see if it works that way. if it doesn't, that'll help me determine where to go from there.

this crimping tool does alright with some of the more "supple" CAT5e cable i've terminated, but its blades also seem to be wearing out.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Feb 15, 2023 via email

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 15, 2023

i plugged the Swapped -> T568B cable into something and the port didn't light up :( i wonder if my crimping tool isn't pushing hard enough

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

@WIMMPYIII
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i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse

I think putting a fuse in the PoE supply (i.e. between the PSU and the PoE) is an extremely good idea. I just put a 2A fuse into my system, so I have a 2A APM (the small automobile size) blade fuse between the PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F rated 48V, 3A

and the Tycon injector:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt rated 2.25A at up to 80V.

I haven't had any problems so far, but it hasn't been on long yet. Certainly no problems during the boot. I've also turned on "preheat" as a test, I think that maybe adds 250mA to the load.

The fuses I'm using are underrated - they are limited to 32V and this is a 48V system. Technically I should be using the classic cylindrical glass tube, such as a 20mm, but at my own risk I chose to use the blade fuses because I have a whole load of them for various amperages. Full specifications of APM fuses are also readily available:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/fuses/bussmann-series-supplemental-fuses/automotive-blade-type/bus-ele-ds-2048-atm-series.pdf

The important thing here is that I put a 2A fuse into a circuit that I know is limited to 2A continuous and which, by experiment (with preheat/snowmelt off) I also know doesn't take even 1.5A for more than 1 second continuous. You can see from the Eaton specification that with this fuse (well, at least if it was made by Eaton...) for the 2A fuse to fuse in 1 second the average current would have to be about 3.4A and I know that the 3.4A transient draw occurs for a lot less than 1s; more than 250uS but certainly less than 1s.

It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 15, 2023

@WIMMPYIII : It's pretty impressive that it can cook 135w fuse.

What can cook a "135W" fuse and what is a "135W" fuse; fuses have amperages(A) and fuse times(s).

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

@WIMMPYIII
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i guess the voltage across pins 1 and 8 should be there even when nothing's plugged in, right? if so, i think this Tycon is DOA because it is not putting out any Voltage.

Or something got shorted.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 16, 2023

i had nothing plugged in, so there's no shorts - the LED for the tycon is on, indicating it has power. if there's any short, it's inside the tycon itself. that would explain why it pulled more than 5 amps.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 17, 2023 via email

@WIMMPYIII
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Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

@bghira said:

i'm using two 400Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries in 24v series connection, their overall storage is more than 9kWh and i'm capable of pulling more than 400 watts from them without substantial V-drop. the 48v step-up is capable of putting out more than 200 watts, as determined with a load tester. i actually under-sized the fuse at first, and it blew right through the 5A (135w). it doesn't burn up a 7.5A fuse, which is 202 watts.

You've got the fuse in the wrong place. It should be between the boost circuit and the PoE. I'm amazed a 7.5A doesn't blow too. Putting it where you have it sees the inrush current to start up the boost converter and then it sees the inrush to start up the antenna. There's no doubt that the antenna can pull about 7A for a short period of time during startup; I avoided that in my setup by not hot-powering the Tycon but your boost converter can deliver 10 times the current of my 48V/3A PSU.

If it is the antenna inrush then I think you need to find a way to do a soft-start. My system survived that 7A inrush but I really don't think it's a good idea to let it happen. A current limiter would help:

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/analogue_circuits/power-supply-electronics/current-limiter-circuit.php

Remember that I measured (almost) 7A from a 3A PSU. It is very likely that it was limited to 7A by the PSU; see the comments in the above article.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Why can't GitHub handle image posts. They never come through.

Some of them do; I believe my Excel charts (PNG images) appeared fine, right? Log in to github, go to the post, edit and and simply drag'n'drop the image into the message. It is necessary to wait for the image to be uploaded to github.com; some of the previous posts with missing images (the links just point to the gist) seem to match the "uploading" display. It looks like the mail gateway for email responses doesn't work that well.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 17, 2023

Just because it's of interest (to me anyway), here are two PoE magnetics modules. The top one is new, the bottom one has been burned out.

Those were the Tycon modules, including the WTx that started smoking? The images did not come through; as I suggested above if you log in to github and edit the message you should be able to drop the images in. I'm interested in seeing the inside of a Tycon (WT or WTx), I only have one and it is in active service :-) These are the faceplates, as images, entered in github by drag'n'drop from the TyconPower website:

poe-inj-1000-wtx 4

That (above) is the WRONG one:

poe-inj-1000-wt 3

That's the right one. Please tell me if the images don't come through!

@torrmundi
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01
Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

@WIMMPYIII
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POE magnetics Link LP6062ANL 01 Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

This is the one that got burnt when cross wired?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 18, 2023

Ok, I am on the Github web site, rather than replying via gmail. Hope this comes through.

It came through. Meltdown. It also looks like the wires in the coils really did burn out.

Praying to the cockroach of electronics at this point that it's my Tycon that will burn out, not the magnetics in the dish :)

@morehardware
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

@WIMMPYIII
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WimpyIII, I have a McCown POE and hooked my power supply to it. But before plugging DIshy into the POE Side can you confirm the cable termination configs with the McCown jumpered like this. I set the pins as suggested (see pic) . From the explanation on this pin setup I think it means I can use a normal ethernet cable from the Data ONLY side to the router. Versus the Tycon required a swapped end from the POE to a T568B to the router. If I use the McCown POE with this pin setting, do I still need to terminate from the DISH a swapped end termination ? That swapped end would go into the POWER DATA side of the McCown. I believe you have a working setup with the McCown POE.

IMG-6217

No swap with the McCown. Use 568B. The only reason for this swapping with the tycon is because you cannot change the power layout on it.
And the picture you have is the correct power layout for the dishy with jumpers on all 4 corners. You should be good to go.

@torrmundi
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Yes, burnt by crossed wires, from a McCown with wrong jumpers.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 19, 2023

For those who want to get rid of the motors this may help:

https://star-mountsystems.com/products/low-profile-flat-mount-for-rectangle-starlink-dishy

Read the instructions for installing the mount they sell; the pictures reveal a lot about the internals of the ethernet/PoE connection. I would be surprised if the 10-pin ethernet connector on the MB isn't just one of the standard ones. Personally I wouldn't remove the ferrite, it's unclear to me why they do that. It seems a simple connection to a waterproof RJ45 modular jack would solve all the problems of the oxidized/corroded SPX connector.

@petersticks
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Quick question… what is the best and proper way to connect the AC adapter to the McCown board? Just cut the cable and connect it?
Uploading image.jpg…

@WIMMPYIII
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Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

@petersticks
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petersticks commented Feb 21, 2023

Yes, sorry your picture isnt showing. If you are using a power pack style AC-DC with a lead plug already on it easiest way is to cut it off and crimp directly to whatever wire you are running to the injector or directly to the injector if you dont have any distance. I usually crimp to cat6 orange and brown + and green and blue - but mine are almost always 100ft or more to the injector and another 100-200ft up a tree.

Thank you! Do I need to cut the wire before (exclude) or after (include) the ferrite bead? I cut it after and there is a center wire (positive) and shielded wire (negative) around that center one. Thanks again.

@WIMMPYIII
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On the reolink 52v the center is the positive and the outer wire is the ground. The ferrite I have done with and without and have not noticed any differences.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

@WIMMPYIII
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new router/cable showed up yesterday so i attempted to use the new router with the RJ45 splicing technique to reuse the existing cable end from the roof, it turns out, however, that the connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage. I don't understand, because I used dielectric grease when installing. It worked great for a while. Then suddenly stopped working.

Replacing the entire cable temporarily with the brand new one (proprietary, in-tact) it works properly.

this is a shame, but the next step for me is to just cut the proprietary connector out of the dishy and use RJ45 the whole way through.

That is what I would do.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 22, 2023

[T]he connector at the dishy end of the cable is just absolutely garbage.

Not just the plug, the jack/socket in the dish mast too. I couldn't work out what the problem was for several days until I eventually cut the dish-end plug off the cable and checked it carefully; the orange and orange/white conductors were both shorted to ground. I think I detailed the cleaning I did above (DeoxIt, WD40 contact cleaner, water hydrogen peroxide) and this was not sufficient to "unshort" the solid orange.

However the dish jack also shows extra resistance (about 2ohms) on the solid orange connector even after I cleaned it several times. My system is working with that. I cut the dish-end plug off a new cable and used Deoxit F5 on both the plug and the jack. Nevertheless I don't like having that extra 2 ohms. Sure it's only one conductor but it's a specific failure point and it should take 1/4 of the current, about 0.4A continuous as measured. It will take less because of the higher resistance, 6 ohms vs 4 ohms in the other conductors, but it's going to dissipate significant power at the oxidized contacts.

When it fails (I'm sure it will) I'll pry the jack out of the mast and do the same thing. The link I posted above shows how to pry the jack out of the end of the mast and it looks like there is going to be enough flex in the lead to cut the inline jack off and do a solder/heat shrink join on all eight conductors. Heat shrink tubing with glue is appropriate here because it will provide a waterproof connection. I'll probably use the heat shrink butt connectors with internal heat melt solder, they work pretty well, though I do twist the conductors together and put a drop of flux on them too.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 22, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

i opened up the very first router, the one that stopped outputting voltage of any kind, and found that it burned two or more of its pads out. the connector was no longer actually connected to the board. the tiny pads and wires that they're mounted through look rather inadequate.

same thing with the Tycon that i have that doesn't work. it has some pads blown out. in both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

i would just get ahead of the issue and replace the crappy connector before it does greater damage.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 24, 2023

yeah i already use the star-mount systems flat kit. but it doesn't encourage you to replace the proprietary jack (yet).

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

I want to maximize my chances of getting a replacement from the StarLink customer support, when he comes back from his vacation. At this point that means preserving the connector even though I know it's damaged. At some point I will have to decide whether to just try to pull out the connector and solder it out of the way or to dremel the whole back off the dish. My inclination is to do the latter - I can flat mount it on my roof which, by design, points north-south and has about the optimal angle. I'll pull the MB connector and use some of the ~140ft of StarLink cable I have to wire it back to the PoE.

[I]n both cases for the SL router and the Tycon, the pads are gone. not just detached.

I haven't dremeled my defective router open yet. Just want to make sure the StarLink mgmt doesn't want it back. Even so mine failed gradually; disconnects over a period of several hours then permanent death. The problem might be caused by a short in the rectangular bit; a failed SPX connector at the antenna can certainly cause a Tycon or a McCown to blow out in this way because they are passive. The StarLink router PoE should be able to manage better but maybe it doesn't.

the ****** connector

I agree 110%

@torrmundi
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Oleg Kutkov has modded the rectangular dishy with an outdoor ethernet connector
See [https://olegkutkov.me/2022/03/07/reverse-engineering-of-the-starlink-ethernet-adapter/]
image

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

I want to maximize my chances of getting a replacement from the StarLink customer support, when he comes back from his vacation. At this point that means preserving the connector even though I know it's damaged. At some point I will have to decide whether to just try to pull out the connector and solder it out of the way or to dremel the whole back off the dish. My inclination is to do the latter - I can flat mount it on my roof which, by design, points north-south and has about the optimal angle. I'll pull the MB connector and use some of the ~140ft of StarLink cable I have to wire it back to the PoE.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 24, 2023

Oleg Kutkov has modded the rectangular dishy with an outdoor ethernet connector

I've been working to a large extent off the analysis Oleg posted; the link you quoted. However it doesn't contain the picture you posted. I have weatherproof connectors of that form and they can be used pretty easily in this application yet it is still necessary to drill a hole in the dish reverse. That looks like the wrong place to me because there is a big compartment around the mast entry point containing the motors; it's not enough to get into that compartment, it's necessary to get into the main compartment with the MB to do what I said.

@bghira
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bghira commented Feb 25, 2023

If you've gone that far you've had access to the motherboard to disconnect the motor connector. The ethernet connector is in there too, just a 10-pin standard (I'm pretty sure) connector. Most likely 8 ethernet conductors plus two shield but the pictures I have aren't clear enough to be sure. Crimping a new connector with the StarLink cable and a new ferrite should allow the perfect solution. The StarLink cable seems pretty good, I believe it's the SPX connectors that are the problem.

yeah i mentioned that already.

also, the shielding isn't really needed. neither is the ferrite core. the ferrite might cause bigger issues tbh.

@torrmundi
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torrmundi commented Feb 25, 2023 via email

@dreadlordchase
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dreadlordchase commented Feb 27, 2023

I'm looking to ditch the Starlink (rectangular dish) router all together and go with PoE injection. I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them. I did find this one here that will take in 110/120vac and output 48vdc up to 3.13a. Seems like it should work well, but was hoping someone with a little more knowledge could tell me.

@WIMMPYIII
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Reolink 52v 150w used to be on Amazon for $35 but they are out of stock now. Here is one but you will have to get a us plug adapter.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004574962720.html

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 27, 2023

I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them.

The one I linked to is (still) available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F

There's a 2A version on the same page which should be just fine. The Reolink is grounded; the ground (earth) pin of the mains supply is connected to the V- on the output. This varies with PSUs, I don't know about the one that I'm using (above) but I have a separate ground for the dish - I have a surge protector between the dish and the Tycon PoE I'm using.

@WIMMPYIII
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I'm going to use a DishyPowa so I'll just need a power supply. I've seen some linked but haven't been able to get any of them.

The one I linked to is (still) available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08889XW1F

There's a 2A version on the same page which should be just fine. The Reolink is grounded; the ground (earth) pin of the mains supply is connected to the V- on the output. This varies with PSUs, I don't know about the one that I'm using (above) but I have a separate ground for the dish - I have a surge protector between the dish and the Tycon PoE I'm using.

If you are going to go that route I would at least get the 3a.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Feb 27, 2023

If you are going to go that route I would at least get the 3a.

What is your reasoning?

@WIMMPYIII
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WIMMPYIII commented Feb 27, 2023

These cheap supplies cant keep up nearly what they are rated for. Most people doing DC to DC conversations are actually picking 6-8 amp units because they can better handle the constant lower amp draw.

@crdiaz324
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Has anyone been able to figure out how to power the High-Performance dish off of DC power? I am thinking of getting one, but I don't want to have to go out and buy an inverter just to power it up.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Mar 2, 2023

the High-Performance dish

Which one is that? This thread is about the rectangular dish (the V3, IRC); I don't think anyone has given any information about the newer StarLink offerings.

@WIMMPYIII
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the High-Performance dish

Which one is that? This thread is about the rectangular dish (the V3, IRC); I don't think anyone has given any information about the newer StarLink offerings.

He it talking about the $2500 HP. From what I have seen from it's performance it's not worth it. But there are some people on the Facebook SL hack group that have built DC conversations. I think they powered directly to the PCB pinouts inside the dish.

@torrmundi
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Remember I had the issue with Peplink BR1 Mini WAN port showing "No Cable Connected" when I used a POE and direct connection to Dishy (no SL router + Eth adapter)? Another telling symptom (thanks JBowler) is the exclusive reporting of ethSpeedMbps=100. I have now been able to connect Dishy <> PoE <> Peplink WAN and it works, as long as I set the WAN port speed below 1000Mbps. So 100Mbps half or full duplex and 10Mbps half or full duplex work fine. The setting is reached from dashboard, Wan Connection Status, Details, Physical Interface Settings, Port Speed. So I believe JBowler is correct in deducing that at least one of the four conductors in pair 3 and pair 4 paths has died within my Dishy. SpaceEx can see that there is a problem with ethernet connection speed and has sent me a new cable, new Eth adapter and (not yet received), a new router. None of which will solve this!

@WIMMPYIII
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@bghira
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bghira commented Mar 14, 2023

we're talking about hacking the wire and specs of the dishy on this gist. i know it's not my page, but can you not spam others with irrelevant youtube links? that just feels like advertising that service, which, honestly, who cares about it.

@WIMMPYIII
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we're talking about hacking the wire and specs of the dishy on this gist. i know it's not my page, but can you not spam others with irrelevant youtube links? that just feels like advertising that service, which, honestly, who cares about it.

Sorry to hurt your butt. I was just showing my application of the mod. Didn't realize it would be taken so offensively.

@bghira
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bghira commented Mar 14, 2023

it's not a discord server. it's a technical post. claiming that my "butt is hurt" is also a homophobic slur. that's actually the offensive part, so far. it was a polite request, which you're now lashing out at.

@WIMMPYIII
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it's not a discord server. it's a technical post. claiming that my "butt is hurt" is also a homophobic slur. that's actually the offensive part, so far. it was a polite request, which you're now lashing out at.

Wow...

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Apr 14, 2023

This just "appeared" on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Passive-Injector-Protection-Developed-pinout/dp/B0BX74T2T5

It appears to have the correct pinout, it requires an appropriate (48V) input source; several have been suggested above. It also needs grounding to provide protection against static accumulation. Normally the mains AC -> 48V buck converters do not connect either rail (+ or -) to ground, but all the capable ones seem to have a three pin power supply and the earth can be used so long as it isn't disconnected. IRC the US requirement is that the earthing circuit be hardwired.

Another approach with (maybe, read the spec sheet) surge protection but with the disadvantage that an MDI-X pin swap (not the MID one documented above) is required:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/tp-poe-hp-56g

That unit is, so far, unique among the ones I've read spec sheets for in that it has in-rush and overcurrent protection. That could be very important given the apparent massive inrush when power is first applied (16A?) and the periodic 3.4A very short term peak which AC mains buck converters handle (they have to handle a 100-120Hz supply) but may be the source of the problem with boost converters (which tend to use a much higher frequency).

The vendor of the first unit says that a version incorporating voltage conversion is in "R&D"; see the comments.

@Shangrila385
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Anyone selling a 250’ cable for starlink rectangular dish to modem. I would like to buy one already assembled that works.

@WIMMPYIII
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Anyone selling a 250’ cable for starlink rectangular dish to modem. I would like to buy one already assembled that works.

Where are you located?

@Shangrila385
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I am in Northern California usa

@Shangrila385
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In Northern California USA. The cable is semi exposed to weather. I was thinking of cat 6e direct burial because it is stronger. But I really don’t know what I need to make sure I have good signal and low resistance

@WIMMPYIII
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In Northern California USA. The cable is semi exposed to weather. I was thinking of cat 6e direct burial because it is stronger. But I really don’t know what I need to make sure I have good signal and low resistance

Message me on email so we don't highjack this thread. starlinktree@gmail.com

@dougbrouwer
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I've been trying to get my 12V conversion working reliably. I'm using what seems like the most common POE injector, the Tycon POE-INJ-1000-WT, wired as per several posts on the web. I've used both the 288 watt and the 192 watt versions of this type of 12V to 48V converter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B7WZGCM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I'm using a variable power supply running at 12V while I get this going, before moving it to my boat.

The setup has worked fine for some period of time, maybe 6 hours, then quits. After the first time it quit, after checking everything I could check, I replaced the Tycon injector and that fixed it. In both of these setups I was using the 192 watt converter. Now it has quit again. I tried using the 288 watt converter, but that didn't change anything. I have another Tycon injector on the way, but even though they're cheap ($10 from Tycon), unless I just happened to get a couple of weak ones, replacing the injectors is not a long term solution.

So I have a couple of questions: Is there a good way to test that the injector is functional? Any thoughts on why my setup might be slowly frying the injector?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Apr 29, 2023

So I have a couple of questions: Is there a good way to test that the injector is functional?

The PoE testers I mentioned earlier can detect the passive PoE but the indications can be a little difficult to fathom, particularly if plugged directly into the Tycon because of the swapped wiring. Best is to make a breakout RJ45 cable - just a short length of CAT5e connected to an RJ45 (with the standard wiring) and the other end bare wire ends. Then you do these checks with the RJ45 plugged in to the Tycon PoE out:

  1. Without power to the Tycon check the resistance between each color pair. It should be around 1 ohm or a little less. Anything over a couple of ohms indicates a bad connection or blown ethernet magnetics in the Tycon.
  2. Without power to the Tycon validate the magnetics by using standard RJ45 cables and plugging one end into a switch, or anything with LEDs to indicate a satisfactory link and the other into a computer or any device with an RJ45 port (including another switch). If you don't get a link the magnetics are probably blown. If you use devices on both ends which can do gigabit ethernet the test is much better; you should get a gigabit connection through the Tycon.
  3. Now go back to the breakout cable and very carefully separate all 8 wires then plug the power in to the Tycon. Take great care not to short the wires! You should see 48V across any two conductions from different ethernet channels when the power is connected. EDIT: This wiring is the wrong one:Channel 1 (1,2,3,6 IRC, but check) should be the +48V and channel two (the other four conductors) should be the -48V, so {1,2,3,6} to {7,8,4,5} should measure 48V for each combination (1,7 1,8, 1,4 1,5, etc, etc. Using the wiring marked on the PoE injector itself; this refers to the RJ45 pins by number (often with a helpful diagram) - this is completely independent of how the RJ45 jack is wired. In both the standard wirings (T-568A and T-568B) and the "swapped" StarLink wiring the brown pair is attached to pins 7 and 8 of the RJ45 jack, so that's an easy double check. It's a bit tedious to do the test and the combinations but it is worth it.)

It is also possible to do a load test after (3) by using some load to verify that you can get 2A out of the setup, or to run a load tester as I think I described above.

The injector is passive. It doesn't use the power to do anything other than supply power on the PoE port so the channels can be tested without power. The power supply inside the Tycon is pretty basic so you can test it without any ethernet signals. This is why the above works.

Any thoughts on why my setup might be slowly frying the injector?

But is it fried? My own system drops out regularly but it is nothing to do with the PoE; what happens is that the dish gets an obstruction at the moment my router is trying to renew the DHCP lease from StarLink, this causes my router to permanently drop the connection until I pull out the RJ45 at the router and plug it back in again. It's a known problem (not necessarily StarLink's, since the DHCP dropout is pretty much unavoidable).

As for your setup it is certainly capable of frying the Tycon and maybe even the dish. The Tycon does not have any protection so connecting a hot PSU to it results in a significant, maybe massive, inrush of current until the dish converters are up to power. The short circuit protection in the boost converter may be enough to prevent damage, but who knows? If it were me I would use the 12->48 3A model; it should not be able to fry the Tycon unless something in your setup is continuously drawing 3A (or so) though the injector.

I can't see why the injector would end up damaged over time. I measured the current over a reasonably extended period (an hour or so) and saw peaks of 3.4A (as described above). Consequently if the injector is getting fried over time I would suspect that the boost converter is being erratic and sometimes delivering less than 48V. Because it is a DC boost converter the designer assumed that the 12V would be there all the time; it isn't designed to handle the 100-times-per-second dropout in the supply (input) voltage that happens with an AC converter. If your supply does drop out then it is possible that the Tycon will see repeated high inrush currents. You might test with a 12V battery (e.g. use a car jump starter, which should have enough capacity for close to 6 hours). If that works suspect a power supply issue.

It is very clear from everything that has been said that getting a DC-DC boost system to work is a lot more difficult than getting an AC-DC buck system to work. I have ideas about why this might be because of the differences between DC and AC PSUs but I'm just guessing. There must be an answer of course.

@WIMMPYIII
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So I have a couple of questions: Is there a good way to test that the injector is functional?

The PoE testers I mentioned earlier can detect the passive PoE but the indications can be a little difficult to fathom, particularly if plugged directly into the Tycon because of the swapped wiring. Best is to make a breakout RJ45 cable - just a short length of CAT5e connected to an RJ45 (with the standard wiring) and the other end bare wire ends. Then you do these checks with the RJ45 plugged in to the Tycon PoE out:

  1. Without power to the Tycon check the resistance between each color pair. It should be around 1 ohm or a little less. Anything over a couple of ohms indicates a bad connection or blown ethernet magnetics in the Tycon.
  2. Without power to the Tycon validate the magnetics by using standard RJ45 cables and plugging one end into a switch, or anything with LEDs to indicate a satisfactory link and the other into a computer or any device with an RJ45 port (including another switch). If you don't get a link the magnetics are probably blown. If you use devices on both ends which can do gigabit ethernet the test is much better; you should get a gigabit connection through the Tycon.
  3. Now go back to the breakout cable and very carefully separate all 8 wires then plug the power in to the Tycon. Take great care not to short the wires! You should see 48V across any two conductions from different ethernet channels when the power is connected. Channel 1 (1,2,3,6 IRC, but check) should be the +48V and channel two (the other four conductors) should be the -48V, so {1,2,3,6} to {7,8,4,5} should measure 48V for each combination (1,7 1,8, 1,4 1,5, etc, etc. It's a bit tedious to do the test but it is worth it.)

It is also possible to do a load test after (3) by using some load to verify that you can get 2A out of the setup, or to run a load tester as I think I described above.

The injector is passive. It doesn't use the power to do anything other than supply power on the PoE port so the channels can be tested without power. The power supply inside the Tycon is pretty basic so you can test it without any ethernet signals. This is why the above works.

Any thoughts on why my setup might be slowly frying the injector?

But is it fried? My own system drops out regularly but it is nothing to do with the PoE; what happens is that the dish gets an obstruction at the moment my router is trying to renew the DHCP lease from StarLink, this causes my router to permanently drop the connection until I pull out the RJ45 at the router and plug it back in again. It's a known problem (not necessarily StarLink's, since the DHCP dropout is pretty much unavoidable).

As for your setup it is certainly capable of frying the Tycon and maybe even the dish. The Tycon does not have any protection so connecting a hot PSU to it results in a significant, maybe massive, inrush of current until the dish converters are up to power. The short circuit protection in the boost converter may be enough to prevent damage, but who knows? If it were me I would use the 12->48 3A model; it should not be able to fry the Tycon unless something in your setup is continuously drawing 3A (or so) though the injector.

I can't see why the injector would end up damaged over time. I measured the current over a reasonably extended period (an hour or so) and saw peaks of 3.4A (as described above). Consequently if the injector is getting fried over time I would suspect that the boost converter is being erratic and sometimes delivering less than 48V. Because it is a DC boost converter the designer assumed that the 12V would be there all the time; it isn't designed to handle the 100-times-per-second dropout in the supply (input) voltage that happens with an AC converter. If your supply does drop out then it is possible that the Tycon will see repeated high inrush currents. You might test with a 12V battery (e.g. use a car jump starter, which should have enough capacity for close to 6 hours). If that works suspect a power supply issue.

It is very clear from everything that has been said that getting a DC-DC boost system to work is a lot more difficult than getting an AC-DC buck system to work. I have ideas about why this might be because of the differences between DC and AC PSUs but I'm just guessing. There must be an answer of course.

I have setup at least 100 of these both with ac-dc and dc-dc and have had 100% reliability. But I don't use tycons, I think they are junk compared to other alternatives.

And I never use 48v in most cases dishy end is getting undervolted with 48. I know the gen2 AP is 48 but it would be more reliable with slightly higher. I think 48 was done for cost savings not reliability.

@bghira
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bghira commented Apr 30, 2023

i had the same issue with the tycon. i tried a mccown but they're sensitive and i am pretty sure i sparked this one with a fat-fingered move where i accidentally brushed the shielded RJ45 connector up against something important - most likely an IEC. it was doing okay for a while after that, and even hit 190mbps but the next day it's limited to 10mbps.

currently i've given up on the idea of running it from purely 12v. it seems to work for some, but the heartache and expense and continually smelling burnt components just isn't sustainable or healthy. and i'm the type who usually refuses to give up until it works. i have a 1980 watt solar installation on my rooftop of my small house. was pretty frustrated with myself for shorting that McCown, as it took soo long to acquire.

@bghira
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bghira commented Apr 30, 2023

i will say the one thing i know is if you use the variable 1500w power supply from Amazon and tune it to 50v you'll have the best luck, as someone else had recommended. i followed that advice and that was the best. with the 388w or so, "heatsink resin style" transformer unit from Amazon that you're using, I just couldn't get any kind of reliable link from it, limiting to 1.5mbps or so. pretty abysmal.

@morehardware
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morehardware commented Apr 30, 2023 via email

@dougbrouwer
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Thanks Morehardware--Tycon makes a bunch of different PoE injectors. Is the cheap, POE-INJ-1000-WT that has been working for you, or are you using one of their more expensive models, and if so, which one?

Given experiences like yours, it's a mystery to me why swapping out the POE-INJ-1000-WT fixed my issue for a short time, and then failed, presumably, but not yet definitively, because of the injector again.

I've ordered one of the 1500W power supplies....

@bghira
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bghira commented Apr 30, 2023

well my Tycon was ruined by the Amazon cheap-ass PSU. when opening it up. the feet of the power module are separated from the PCB. they're not soldered very well and the heat pops them off.

@bghira
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bghira commented Apr 30, 2023

@dougbrouwer that's the one that'll work.

@dougbrouwer
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dougbrouwer commented Apr 30, 2023

"the feet of the power module are separated from the PCB."
Wow! That's pretty strange for a 130W rated device that carries a 3 year warranty.....
If Tycon doesn't replace mine under the warranty I'll open it up and report back.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented May 1, 2023

@dougbrouwer do you have any of the four connections to the buck converter connected (directly or indirectly) to ground? By "ground" I mean a structure of vehicle ground that part of the dish might be connected to? For example if the mast is grounded or the shielded cable from the dish. The Tycon shouldn't be connecting the shield to anything; it just passes the connection straight through, but if you have a surge suppressor inline or if you connect to a shielded port on the router that probably would.

@dougbrouwer
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any of the four connections to the buck converter connected (directly or indirectly) to ground?

Not any any way that's intentional. I'm simply using shielded RJ-45 connectors, and I'm being careful to connect the wire ground to the shield.

@dougbrouwer
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well my Tycon was ruined by the Amazon cheap-ass PSU. when opening it up.

@bghira What's the secret to opening up the Tycon injector? It's not obvious to me. Is it glued shut?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented May 2, 2023

any of the four connections to the buck converter connected (directly or indirectly) to ground?

Not any any way that's intentional. I'm simply using shielded RJ-45 connectors, and I'm being careful to connect the wire ground to the shield.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you manage to ground the PoE then it is quite possible that you will blow it.

@bghira
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bghira commented May 4, 2023

@dougbrouwer a dremel

@Shangrila385
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Shangrila385 commented May 5, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented May 5, 2023

Can anyone explain in layman terms how to make a cable to use on starlink that is 300’ long and will work without losing signal strength? The dish is being put on the roof of a high rise bldg. And cable dropped down a shaft to lower floor.

That's actually very easy assuming there is a weatherproof location with power within 150' (or, cheaper, 75') of the dish location. That's pretty much a cert for a highrise. You put the StarLink router in the weatherproof enclosure, connect it to the building supply and connect it to the dish using the standard StarLink cables and the standard (USD25) Ethernet Dongle also from StarLink. Put the router into bypass mode, plug a standard 100m (300') ethernet cable into the dongle and the other end into the router on the lower floor.

There are lots of other ways, including the recently advertized stuff on Amazon that I quoted recently, but they are more expensive and, in most (but not all) cases, involve cutting cables. Easiest is to stick the router on the roof and do the drop from the dongle.

Anyone familiar with ethernet setup will know how to do this once they get their head round the weird StarLink router/dongle arrangement.

@Shangrila385
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Shangrila385 commented May 5, 2023 via email

@JustOneGuyHere
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I have a bunch of questions about Starlink cables. Not a regular here at all, and not a techie but also not a total idiot. I don't know if this is the right thread. I'm here because someone posted the link in a Starlink discussion. I don't want to start in on it for nothing.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 22, 2023

@JustOneGuyHere; it's a gist about getting a cable longer than the official StarLink 150ft cable for where the dish (the rectangular one, the v2 IRC) is more than 150ft from a power source. Since it's about power delivery the gist described how to build a new cable (by cutting the original one) with an additional power (PoE) injector. As a result it covers the wiring of the cable (standard ethernet, non-standard PoE). It applies to other cases where the cable is not that long but where it is desired to get rid of the white "tombstone" router. Things other than PoE requirements are incidental; there's some discussion about other things (e.g. I described one, apparently, common failure mode of the system) but it's slightly off-topic.

@JustOneGuyHere
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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 22, 2023

@JustOneGuyHere; it's a gist about getting a cable longer than the official StarLink 150ft cable for where the dish (the rectangular one, the v2 IRC) is more than 150ft from a power source. Since it's about power delivery the gist described how to build a new cable (by cutting the original one) with an additional power (PoE) injector. As a result it covers the wiring of the cable (standard ethernet, non-standard PoE). It applies to other cases where the cable is not that long but where it is desired to get rid of the white "tombstone" router. Things other than PoE requirements are incidental; there's some discussion about other things (e.g. I described one, apparently, common failure mode of the system) but it's slightly off-topic.

I'm a civilian, and as such a little pathetic, but at least I admit it. I think I've learned that the Snow Melt feature winds up melting cables for many users (including us) and that there really isn't a realistic hack for it. I'm also standard user with a 50-foot cable and a dish mounted atop a 10-foot pole near the house. After replacing one cable with great difficulty, I've given up on Snow Melt and have turned it all the way off forever.

I'm told that even without the feature, what's in the dish uses 25-35 watts and generates some heat. Not enough to melt heavy snow (which we get sometimes) but I wonder if it'll be enough to keep ice from forming to begin with. Sorry if this is off-topic. If so, trust me, I'm not any kind of whackjob and will retreat right away. If you happen to be able to answer the ice question, I'd appreciate it. If you can't, I'll understand.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 23, 2023

I wonder if it'll be enough to keep ice from forming to begin with.

I don't know what failed in your/Starlink's kit, so bearing that in mind I'm just going to state the obvious.

Turn pre-heat on. It will cost you more in electricity but it might stop the snow-melt surge and that might be your problem. It's pretty much not possible to melt that cable, certainly not with the stock StarLink kit, even if the biggest surge I measured (which I don't quite believe) continued for a whole summer (when the cable resistance is highest).

In any case buy a power outlet tester and make absolutely sure the outlet the tombstone is plugged into is correctly grounded. If the outlet tester says anything weird call an electrician. Failing to ground the dish might result in static build up causing a static discharge that is sufficient to fry one of the four connectors. Failing to have adequate grounding in a house is much more dangerous of course.

Bottom line is that you have a failed piece of electrical equipment that indicates a major fault. I had the same problem and my conclusions are documented above, in a lot of detail; I try not to give conclusions, rather I document what I observe. This is github after all. I have my own conclusion which I don't think I've disclosed here but if you read what I said you can draw your own too.

@JustOneGuyHere
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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 23, 2023

Bottom line is that you have a failed piece of electrical equipment that indicates a major fault. I had the same problem and my conclusions are documented above, in a lot of detail; I try not to give conclusions, rather I document what I observe. This is github after all. I have my own conclusion which I don't think I've disclosed here but if you read what I said you can draw your own too.

I will check the grounding, but strongly doubt this is the problem. The house was built 6 years ago, and there have been no electrical problems anywhere in the house. The speed first slowed down greatly, then disconnected altogether. After several weeks (typical Starlink -- terrible customer service) a new router and cable showed up.

The new router didn't work on the first cable, and now works fine on the second cable. The issue of fried cables turns out to be common. The four wire pairs are 24 gauge, which is fine until the thermostat in the dish tells the router to increase the amperage to the dish, which heats up the electronics inside the dish enough to melt snow on the dish face. Unfortunately, those very same 24 gauge wires tend to get fried by the extra current, especially in places where there are months of thermostat-dictated heating events, most of which (ironically) aren't even necessary because they were generated not by the presence of snow but only by cold temperatures.

At this point, I've decided to turn off Snow Melt, and only wonder whether 25-35 watts still going to the dish will generate enough heat to keep ice from forming. I know it won't keep snow from accumulating, so I will handle that issue by duct-taping a windshield scraper to an extender pole and wiping snow off. I'm told that the film on the dish is fragile enough to make it inadvisable to scrape ice off, but I wonder whether or not that 25-35 watts of power going to the dish will be enough to keep ice off, or whether I'll just have to turn on Snow Melt during storms and risk another cable failure.

You know, this wouldn't be happening if Musk had simply hired a graduate of Electrician 101 class at a community college to build a cable with 14 gauge wiring inside, but that's not rocket science so why bother? Better to irritate a lot of people and ship out new cables with the same design flaw. It's what happens when you're too cool for school. LOL

@JustOneGuyHere
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Tested for grounding. As expected, no problem. I have ordered a current meter. Based on some reading, I believe that the router operates at 110-120V and 0.25A without Snow Melt, and at 5A in Snow Melt mode. I don't have a meter yet, but will be getting one and testing it. Given how many cables are being fried by Snow Melt (I'm far from the only Starlink user who's reported the fault), I think the 24-26 AWG wiring in the cables is inadequate for the task.

I will check to be sure, but I am pretty convinced that Starlink under-engineered the cable wiring. As I see it, they went full Rocket Science on the satellites and the dishes, but ignored Electrician 101 when they designed the cables. The remaining question is for how long I can overload the wiring before I fry the wires inside the poorly designed cable.

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 24, 2023

5A in Snow Melt mode. I don't have a meter yet, but will be getting one and testing it.

Please report back on that. I live in SW Oregon so getting the dish to go into snow melt was pretty much impossible.

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 24, 2023 via email

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 24, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 24, 2023

I also found a Kill-A-Watt meter, and in summertime (right now), it's drawing 122-123V and 0.35-0.4A with Snow Melt off or on automatic. In pre-heat, it draws 0.9A.

It sounds like you are measuring the current into the router. The power consumption of the router itself should be fairly constant. There will be an extra power draw from the dish, but you can work out the raw power required by the router simply by powering it on with the dish not connected (do not connect or disconnect the dish to a powered on router; this causes a very significant power surge to the dish which is the most likely candidate for frying one or more of the four connectors). See my earlier comment:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4479847#gistcomment-4479847

I got my figures using the Tycon power injector described in this gist (not the router) so I was able to measure the current being sent down the cable. I also put a 2A fuse inline with the power delivery so that limits the short-term average current. The fuse never blew even though there is good reason to believe that there is a startup current/power surge which might be as much as 7A for a (small) fraction of a second (hence my comment about about not connecting a "hot" router to the dish). My detailed measurements start here:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4463407#gistcomment-4463407

If you look at one of the posts that follow:

https://gist.github.com/darconeous/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee?permalink_comment_id=4466245#gistcomment-4466245

You will see the graph of what actually happens during boot and after. This is using a Fluke 189 logging multimeter, pretty much the industry standard when it was bought for me it but I admit I've owned it for coming on 30 years and never got it recalibrated. The most telling figures might be the ones in the first comment: the dish apparently does consume close to 90W for short periods of time. 90W is the capacity of the router, some injectors can handle more but certainly not all of them.

I believe I left "pre-heat" on after my first post and you can see that the actual dish consumption hits a max of 1.6A but averages somewhere in the range 0.6 to 0.9A. This corresponds to a maximum power of 77W and an average over 5s in the range 29W-43W, consistent with the stated router capabilities.

It's almost impossible to guesstimate the actual power going to the router without a calibration of the router efficiency; the router takes 110-250V input and converts it to its own internal power requirements (5V or 3.3V, probably 5) and the dish requirements (48V). Efficiencies will be in the range 80-90% but the design might be dumb.

Nevertheless whatever excess current is delivered to the router when the dish is connected it is certainly an underestimate of the current going to the dish, because that current is at ~48V.

All the evidence so far is that the design of the dish produces significant surge currents under some circumstances. In particular there is evidence that there might be a very high initial surge if a charged, hot, PoE injector is connected to the dish. This is what I was doing with my Tycon setup and the tester I was using (which I don't trust) reported a 7A surge.

The surge should be no big problem for the components involved because they are mostly passive, maybe all; it's not clear how many diodes StarLink put into the circuit but it sounds like "none", that's one way of getting more power. My own tests prove that in my system the thing that fried was the connection (the connector) at the dish. It fried in a way that is consistent with an instantaneous surge. What caused that surge is impossible to say.

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 25, 2023

This is consistent what what I've been reading (maybe here?) that the dish use 0.30A with Snow Melt completely off.

That's consistent with my numbers; it would correspond to about 0.6A going to the dish. A rule of thumb assuming 80-90% efficiency in the router is that the current flowing to the dish MIGHT be about twice the extra current to the router. Maybe "pre-heat" increases it slightly but I suspect that will be thermostatically controlled (this doesn't cost enough money for StarLink to cost-reduce it out of the dish). I measure in February, before the current heat but it was still well above 0C.

Our dish is always connected, so what does that mean? It's not as if I climb the ladder and monkey around with the connector.

Don't start up, power cycle, the router without the dish cable connected. I.e. don't plug the dish cable into the router when the router is connected to the power supply; this causes a surge because the router socket is already powered up and the dish is waiting for juice. It says this in the instructions; if you follow the instructions step by step the router is connected to the power after the router is connected to the dish. Of course you have to look at this like a lawyer or a computer programmer to see that as a clear instruction.

@JustOneGuyHere
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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 25, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 26, 2023

I did my best to read through the whole thread. It's frustrating because I have only a limited background, and among other things the acronyms have thrown me at times.

It's a long set of comments and there are more questions than answers (like why don't systems running of 12V batteries work as well as 110V systems?)

My answers are cryptic because I do assume a certain knowledge set but for your purposes there a really only two important things to understand. The first is the electrical power equation:

P = V × I

That matters because the dish requires a certain amount of power with any given configuration and the router (or PoE) has to delivery that power; voltage and current don't matter, only the product counts. The second equation is Ohms law:

V = I × R

This matters because the cable itself takes power; the power to drive the current (I) down the line, and that creates a voltage drop across the cable (V).

Maybe the important thing here is that what I was saying is that my numbers (as reported in the various links) are completely consistent with yours, except, maybe, for the pre-heat behavior. The difference is that you measured current at the router power inlet. That inlet takes a voltage between 110V and 250V whereas all my measurements are the current on the cable which has a power supply of 48V (I used a PoE but it is a 48V PoE like the router IRC.)

So the router has to convert 122V (AC) with 0.3A for the dish to 48V with whatever power the dish requires. The conversion isn't 100% efficient but it will be in the range 80%-95%; assume 90% (arbitrary). This would mean that the router/cable assembly are being supplied with 33W at 48V (DC) which is a current of 0.69A.

That's pretty much identical to what I measured; a 5s average of 0.6 to 0.8A, looks like 0.7A to me!

The pre-heat figure is, however, a bit of a problem; 0.9A less 0.07A for the router means 100W, at 90% efficiency that means the cable assembly is getting 90W and this is the quoted (faceplate) limit of the router. It's still well within the capabilities of the cable but it really is flat out for the system design. It's close to 2A up and down the cable (so the cable is carrying 4A total, still fine so far as I can see). Maybe that's the way StarLink designed it and maybe I didn't manage to switch preheat on properly (or maybe StarLink had it disabled in SW Oregon?)

Another question would be whether the cable problem might be not the cable wiring but the connectors. Note that I'm referring to a standard 50-foot cable connected to a Gen 2 dish.

I think it is the connectors but I don't see how anything the router delivers continuously is going to cause a problem.

Then you don't want me to connect the dish cable into the router when it's connected to the power supply, which I take to mean plugged into the wall.

Yes, because of the way the dish power supply inside the router seems to work. I believe it's a fairly basic passive PoE design (I haven't located a circuit diagram for the router so I can't be sure.) It is a passive design (or the hacks on this gist would not work) and I believe it directly converts the AC power at 60Hz/110V or 50Hz/220V to the 48V. This means that it has to retain sufficient energy between the two points where the AC hits 48V; it has to keep on delivering 48V even though the input voltage is less than 48V.

When you connect the dish to the router with the router already turned on my hypothesis is that this energy floods down the cable to charge the various power supplies inside the dish. This is an "inrush" current and it can be very large. Poorly designed (IMO) 19.2V laptop power supplies had a nasty effect of causing an arc - lightning, accompanied by a bang, thunder - when plugged into a power outlet, this happened for the same reason.

So my further hypothesis is that it's simply a bad idea to plug the dish into a powered on router because that inrush can cause an arc in the connector and, given the connector, easily damage it.

Guess what I did when I was first playing around with my new dish? I had it outside on the lawn and, using the 'phone app, I was testing locations. Because I didn't want to have to go back into the house to plug the router into the outlet I disconnected and reconnected the dish cable connection at the dish. As I reported above the connector between the cable and the dish is now fried; both sides. StarLink sent me a new cable but not a new dish... There's still a significant extra resistance in the connector within the dish mast. I've given up on StarLink but if I hadn't I would have got round to pulling out the dish connector (it's not impossible) and soldering my own CAT5e cable to the wires.

That's just my story of course, but I don't believe any of the reports which imply that the router can deliver way, way, more than 90W. (Of course I have a couple of routers now that I can destruction test, maybe I will one day...)

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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 26, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 26, 2023

Is there enough resistance in four 24AWG 50-foot wire pairs to care about in the context we're discussing?

No.

The standard StarLink cable is 75ft, there are 8 24AWG wires in there, but they are twisted together so they are very slightly longer than 75ft. Not enough to matter I believe. They are also stranded in the StarLink cable; they are each 7 (or 11, I should count them :-) much thinner (31AWG?) wires but the "24AWG" should take all that into account. I normally find "engineeringtoolbox" to be a good resource:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

So each wire is around 0.2mm² in diameter and 8 of them are 1.6mm² This is a "cable assembly" so the whole thing has to be considered as a unit. It is equivalent to a 15AWG wire (a single wire). See this table:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

The "maximum amps for power distribution" column is based on power loss; the resistance causing excessive loss of power. The value is 4.7A, so the CAT5E is approaching reasonable limits for power loss (and this is, of course, the point of this gist). The "maximum amps for chassis wiring" is the figure for temperature rise. The figure is 28A; this is the point at which the wire (cable in this case) starts to overheat. 28A is in'n'out; the router would be supplying 14A. That's 672W; well within the capability of a 15A US 110V power supply (1650W) but well beyond what the white tombstone can deliver.

For voltage drop it makes more sense to go back to the resistance of 24AWG wires because the fact that they are grouped together doesn't matter and it's just too easy to make mistakes through unnecessary complication. The standard StarLink cable is 75ft long, the longest they actually sell is 150ft long. The powerstream site gives 25.67Ω per 1000ft for 24AWG; that's actually solid and I don't know which number gets priority to determine AWG, resistance would make sense but I don't know. Using that number there are four conductors in and four out for a resistance of 6.4Ω per foot over twice the distance (there and back) times 150ft, 1.93Ω, pretty much 2Ω. I believe my measurements of the resistance of an actual cable were less than that so that seems a possible upper limit.

So that's a 4V loss for 150ft at the max of the StarLink router (2A). Hence the idea to go to a 52V supply for longer, e.g. 300ft; the standard maximum of the ethernet signal. 300ft at 24AWG (the other recommendation is to go to 23AWG CAT6) drops 8V which, IRC, is the lower limit of the PoE standards and StarLink isn't standard in this regard. For the standard cable the drop is 2V; irrelevant.

These figures are consistent with a reasonable assumption that the StarLink engineers checked what they were doing. I can criticize what they did in other ways, but not this one.

@crdiaz324
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Have you guys seen this? Here is a kit that plugs right in, avoiding the need to cut or invert your wires. https://techcharmer.com/products/custom-poe-injector

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torrmundi commented Jul 30, 2023 via email

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Jul 30, 2023

The YAOSHENG adapter avoids the need to cut the cable; https://www.amazon.com/YAOSHENG-Rectangular-Adapter-Connect-Injector The YAOSHENG PoE injector is rated at 3A, the TechCharmer PoE looks like a Tycon custom build in which case it would be 2.25A. The StarLink ethernet adapter ($25) can be hacked to make an adapter for the end of the cable as well. Cutting the hole removes the need for the dubious SpaceX connectors. I suspect the white plug is a standard PCB connector like one of the JST connectors.

@JustOneGuyHere
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JustOneGuyHere commented Jul 30, 2023

The standard StarLink cable is 75ft, there are 8 24AWG wires in there, but they are twisted together so they are very slightly longer than 75ft.

Sorry, the standard Starlink cable is 50 feet. It's in their specs, and I confirmed it by measuring the old one that I pulled out.

https://www.starlink.com/specifications

Starlink doesn't say whether it's Cat 5e or Cat 6a. I've seen it described both ways, but as I write I'm inclined to say Cat 5e. That would be 24 AWG. Ampacity for 24 AWG is 3.5.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

Now for the fun stuff. When my router is plugged in without the cable plugged in, it registers 0.07A at the indoor outlet. When the cable is plugged in, it registers 0.37A. Both numbers vary a bit but not much; the dish is drawing about 0.3A minus whatever resistance is in 50 feet of 24AWG and two connectors. That 0.3A is measured at the outlet, but there's a step-down transformer in the router that converts 120 volts to 48 volts. This turns 0.3A into 0.75A. Doesn't change the wattage: still 36 watts

My next door neighbor, also a Starlink user whose cable crapped out, measured 5A at the wall outlet last winter with Snow Melt running. Subtracting the 0.07A that the router uses, you get 4.93A delivered to the 48 volt power supply. Voltage stepped down, amperage stepped up to 12.5 over wiring rated for 3.5A . Either way, about 600 watts. (Okay, 591.6 minus a smidgen of power loss in the transformer.) It's becoming clear to me just why so many Starlink cables are failing. Would you use Cat 5e (or Cat 6a) to run power to a space heater?

Now that Starlink is fully commercial, it's becoming popular in rural areas. In places like mine, where it's cold enough to trigger the Snow Melt thermostat off and on for maybe half the year if left on the default "automatic" setting, I think this wiring is getting damaged a little bit each time until it finally gives out. I also note that the Starlink router label shows that it's a 2A device, yet my neighbor observed that it was drawing 5A when Snow Melt was running. I wonder if Snow Melt is frying both the routers and the cables.

My big remaining question is: How long does Snow Melt go on when it goes on? My guess is "not for long enough to fry the cables right away." This is why, when I click around and see reports of bad cables, the story is almost always that it worked for X months then suddenly stopped. In any case I will check that this coming December. When there's a storm, I'll sit next to the meter, turn on Snow Melt and watch what happens, and for how long. I see that Starlink says the dish will melt 1.5" of snow per hour. Sorry, that tells me nothing. At what angle? And what triggers its activation?

I am not an electrician. Didn't take Electrician 101 at the community college. I've had to do a bunch of research to figure this out, but the closer I look the more I think this explains a widespread Starlink problem. Finally, we might ask how something this basic and frankly stupid could happen (if I'm correct, that is.) The answer would be rocket science. Musk & Co. put all their brain cells into the rockets, the satellites, and the dishes, and wound up "assuming" the routers and cables. Kind of like when the space shuttle geniuses assumed those O-rings. Smart people are no less inclined to be oblivious than anyone else.

FINALLY ... if anyone can tell me how I'm wrong about this, I am much, MUCH more receptive to correction than it might seem.

@bghira
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bghira commented Jul 30, 2023

Sorry, the standard Starlink cable is 50 feet. It's in their specs, and I confirmed it by measuring the old one that I pulled out.

used to be 75. but it's honestly too much distance. i was always cutting and shortening.

@TyraelTLK
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TyraelTLK commented Aug 11, 2023

I can't find passive poe injectors with 4 pairs. Is it possible to use 2 of these making 2 custom Y cable to use only the 2 powered pairs of each injector?

https://www.alfa.com.tw/products/apoe03g?variant=39871024889928

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Aug 11, 2023

Is it possible to use 2 of these making 2 custom Y cable to use only the 2 powered pairs of each injector?

Yes but you have to know exactly what you are doing and it's pointless since the Tycon, as documented above, works just fine so long as correct wire pairs are swapped. If you don't want to do that the one I posted links to on Amazon doesn't require the wire swap. Seriously though, the cable has to be cut with any of these solutions (except the two most recently posted) so attach the RJ45 modular plus and it really is no more difficult to crimp those on with the correct wire swap than it is to crimp them on without a wire swap. (Both are error prone of course.)

A single APOE03G costs the same as a single Tycon PoE (USD15 from Amazon, USD10+postage direct from Tycon).

@TyraelTLK
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From Germany I see the Tycoon no more available from your link. From another it's 30€ but long time delivery, I ordered 2 days ago and it should arrive 24th but it hasn't been shipped yet (but it's too late for me in anycase). The APOE03G is 9.85 + 5€, total 25€ and should be here in 2-3 days.
Thank you!
Let's see if I'll be able to put together something that'll work ;)

@sjkjs
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sjkjs commented Aug 12, 2023

The Reolink power supply is out of stock and I can't find an equivalent replacement where I live. DC power supplies don't seem to advertise whether or not the DC negative is connected to ground, it seems to be luck of the draw.

How can I make sure that the CAT5e shield is correctly grounded when using a POE-INJ-1000-WT PoE injector? It only has + and - inputs. There's no terminal for ground. Is it safe to take any random 48-52V power brick and ground its DC negative output?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Aug 12, 2023

How can I make sure that the CAT5e shield is correctly grounded when using a POE-INJ-1000-WT PoE injector?

It's well documented in the Tycon specification; the PoE does a pass through on the shield. You need to use a PSU which is floating but general purpose PSUs should do that; the only one I've found that did actually ground the output was a LinkSys PSU designed for a particular piece of equipment. Test it first.

@sjkjs
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sjkjs commented Aug 12, 2023

It's well documented in the Tycon specification; the PoE does a pass through on the shield. You need to use a PSU which is floating but general purpose PSUs should do that; the only one I've found that did actually ground the output was a LinkSys PSU designed for a particular piece of equipment. Test it first.

The shield is meant to be grounded isn't it? I will be connecting the dish (via the PoE injector) to a network switch which is powered off a DC barrel jack and has a floating ground. So, if I used the Tycon injector and used its shield pass through, the shield would still be ungrounded at all 4 plugs (2 on the dish side, 2 on the switch side).

In this situation don't I need to explicitly provide it with a ground, or accept the risk of being ungrounded?

@jbowler
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jbowler commented Aug 12, 2023

In this situation don't I need to explicitly provide it with a ground, or accept the risk of being ungrounded?

Yes, the shield should be grounded somewhere. You have to make an explicit decision where to ground it unless the PoE injector does it. (The PoE injector for my other PoE aerial, from my original ISP, does ground the shield.) Normally nothing else in the cable run (including surge suppressors) will ground the shield.

In my StarLink arrangement I had the dish plugged in to a surge suppressor then from there to the Tycon WT then all the way to my router; this was in a box outside the house. I ran the drain wire out of one of the RJ45 plugs and just connected that to the same ground as the surge suppressor.

In the arrangement with my prior ISP I put a surge suppressor on the outside of the house, in a box, and had waterproof RJ45 sockets on that. IRC I had a shield pass-through to the PoE but I could have grounded the shield of the incoming RJ45 inside the box and arranged not to connect it on the outgoing connection to the PoE, or broken the connection to the PoE by using an unshielded cable in the last step (wall jack inside the house to PoE.)

NetGear PoE switches do ground the shield; for the ones with the wall-wart and the low voltage DC supplies there is a grounding screw on the case, for ones with built in AC power the shield is connected to the AC ground.

The rule, if there is one, seems to be to ground at the power supply; the PoE injector. All the switches I have provide shielded RJ45 sockets and all those shields are connected together. On one (a new TrendNET 10G switch) the shield is also connected to the power supply socket (12V 1A barrel connector). On another NetGear switch (non-PoE) the shield is isolated from the barrel connector. Since you are using a a switch I would expect every shielded cable plugged into it to be connected together so if any get grounded they all will be.

@sjkjs
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sjkjs commented Aug 13, 2023

I ran the drain wire out of one of the RJ45 plugs and just connected that to the same ground as the surge suppressor.

Thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense.

I'm using a Netgear GC110P PoE switch which doesn't have the shield grounded and also doesn't provide a grounding screw. The shield seems to be disconnected from everything.

I like your idea of using one of the spare RJ45 ports and running a drain wire to somewhere else that does have a ground. I might look at doing that too.

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