Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable

rect-starlink-cable-hack.md

Hacking the Rectangular Starlink Dishy Cable

These are are some notes I put together on butchering the rectangular dishy cable.

FOLLOW THESE GUIDELINES AT YOUR OWN RISK. I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE OR INJURY YOU SUSTAIN FROM FOLLOWING OR NOT FOLLOWING THESE GUIDELINES.

Disclaimer: Don't do this

In general, if you can get away with using the original 75' cable (or the official 150' long replacement cable), then that is ultimately preferable to doing any of this stuff. If you don't already know why you would want to do this then you definitely shouldn't do it. If you run into trouble, the first thing Starlink Support is going to ask is if the cable between your dishy and router has any modifications, and for good reason.

Power

Despite the connectors being proprietary, the underlying technology connecting the router and the rectangular dishy is gigabit ethernet with non-standard PoE(The orange and green pairs are positive, the blue and brown pairs are negative). The cable itself is plain stranded STP CAT5e, suitable for outdoor use. The router acts as a 48V, 2A PoE power supply, so 96 watts are available at the port the router.

Stick with the original router (and possibly the ethernet port dongle) unless you have a good reason to try something else. You cannot power dishy with a standard PoE injector, but if you are enterprising enough you can rearrange the wires (swap blue/green, terminate as Type-B) going into and out-of a passive 4-pair PoE Injector and get it working with a sufficiently large 48V or 52V DC power supply.

Note that most 48V 2A power supplies on Amazon are insufficient! I recommend this 52V power supply, as I have confirmed that it works and I am using it on my own 200+ft run.

Resistance

Resistance is the primary limiting factor you will run into. As you increase the length of the cable and add additional terminations/connectors, resistance increases. If the resistance is too high, the voltage at the dishy will (perhaps only occasionally) drop too low, causing it to spuriously reboot or not boot at all.

The exact maximum round-trip power resistance that the cable can have before Dishy's stability suffers isn't immediately clear, but 1.8Ω round-trip (~88 watts available for Dishy) appears to be stable while 2.5Ω round-trip is just barely unstable. (neither value includes the resistance of about 20 extra feet of the original CAT5e that is used in my setup)

If you cannot easily measure resistance, you will need to be as conservative as possible:

• Keep the length of your entire run as short as possible and your connectors as few as possible. Continuous runs are almost always preferable to runs with connectors.
• Use outdoor-rated cable for outdoor runs. If riser cable is all you have, paint it.
• Don't directly bury the cable unless it is rated for direct burial. Otherwise, water intrusion will eventually make your connection unreliable. The original cable is NOT rated for direct burial.
• Use 23AWG (or larger) CAT6/CAT6A cable, which will contribute around 0.03Ω/meter for a continuous run.
• The original cable was only 24AWG, so if you are using 23AWG cable then the less length you use from the original cable the better.
• It would appear that connectors will each contribute ~0.02-0.1Ω to the round-trip resistance, but more research is required.
• Avoid unnecessary use of patch panels, they introduce additional connectors and add resistance.
• 150' is likely the most distance you are going to get without changing your approach (like splitting out the power into larger guage wires, etc), but if you use a specialty low-resistance cable (like this) then you might be able to almost double that with some careful terminations.
• Once you get everything set up, try turning on snow pre-heat mode:
  • If you can run a few speed tests in a row without problems, then you are likely golden.
  • If your dishy reboots (either immediately or after running a few speed tests), your cable resistance is too high.

For longer runs you may need to use a power supply with a larger voltage. I can confirm that the rectangular dishy works fine on 52V.

Grounding

With a longer run, proper grounding and surge protection becomes more important. Dishy must be grounded in some way. With the unmodified original cable, that grounding comes from the router. Since we are cutting that wire, we need to make sure that we provide that grounding.

• At least the the first RJ45 termination on the dishy side should be a grounded RJ45 plug.
• Use a high-quality, grounded, PoE-compatable ethernet surge protector at the termination closest to your dishy.
  • If you do this at your "service entrance" (where the wire enters your house), then you won't need a shielded ethernet cable after that point---but you might want it to be shielded to reduce RF interference.
  • If you do use a shielded cable after the grounded surge protector, make sure you don't have a continuous ground between your surge protector and your Starlink router---that would create a ground loop, and you don't want that. If there is a ground fault, some of the surge current could go through your shielding!
• Alternatively, you could forgo the surge protector and use shielded cables, connectors, and plugs for the entire run and ensure continuity between the starlink router and dishy (presumably the router has some amount of built-in surge protection).

Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

Tonight I replicated the setup at my client's house. The 75' proprietary cable was cut about 15' from the modem end. The signal path is now modem > Ethernet adapter > 15' of proprietary cable with RJ45 jack > 25' of Cat6 with plugs on both ends > 100' of Cat6 with jacks on both ends > 60' of proprietary cable with a plug on the end > dishy.

I'm running through a total of 200' of cable with 2 different cable skews and 3 junctions and it works fine. To validate my results, I pulled out the FLIR camera to take some photos of the connectors. The chatter here and elsewhere indicates that Starlink is using the modified USBC connectors to accommodate the amperage required by dishy. I expected the RJ45 junctions to be the weakest link in the chain and to see some heat generated there. That was not the case though. All the connectors are at room temperature, regardless of whether the heater is on or off.

The cables do appear to be about 3° warmer than room temperature, but that trivial amount of heat could still be residual from me coiling the cables after cutting them off the spool.

Reality here is that you could fill the ocean with things I don't know about how this actually works. How many watts does dishy actually draw when the heater is on? Is it different when the heater is in auto mode vs pre-heat? The cable I used isn't shielded. Does it matter? Should I have eaten that whole burrito? The list goes on forever. But I suspect that this the power supply is designed for the worst case scenario, taking into account voltage drop for the 150' proprietary cable and all the things (heater, servo motors, etc) operating at the same time. Likely for a more sustained period of time than will ever actually happen.

Should you do this? Absolutely not, as noted in the disclaimer at the top of the thread. Can you do this? Probably. Am I actually going to void the warranty on my client's backup satellite internet hardware just to make the cables pretty? -Yup.

How much more stress is this putting on the internal power supply and how will the dishy handle the voltage and amperage drop over a long period of time is the question.

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

Should I activate bridge mode if I want to use my own router in this setup?

So far as I can see bridge mode is only required if IPv6 is required. If you are happy with the StarLink router as an IPv4 failover then I believe it should be possible to plug the dongle ethernet into the WAN port of a router with failover support but would result in triple NAT.

It seems much more simple to use "bypass" (i.e. bridge mode); having two routers just complicates the configuration and, indeed, the StarLink router wifi can't be switched off or hidden so that complicates the user experience as well. Bypass mode isn't perfect because the traffic still goes through two ethernet systems and, most likely, the MCU but I don't know if the antenna will boot without the ethernet connection; with PoE from a separate injector.

Thanks for insights. I would better stick to original Starlink router. For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router. Original one would suffice for my my needs

For me there is no particular reason to use my own wi-fi router.

The terminology has evolved over the years and become confusing as a result. Both StarLink and my local ISP provide a bridge, in the form of the antennae, and then what is now called a router but used to be called a gateway is required afterward. Setting "bypass" mode on the StarLink router bypasses the gateway functionality of the router and means that another router (well, another gateway) is required.

Setting the StarLink router into bypass mode is not something anyone needs to do unless they already know then need to do it.

Ive had some difficulty converting my Starlink to 12 volts. I terminated my stock cable and built my own POE using the typical components described in youtube vids and Reddit forums confirmed to be working - 12 volt to 48V 3amp step up powersupply , Tycon POE injector. I put the Starlink in Bridge mode, hooked everything to a GL-Inet Beryl router wan port with the properly terminated ends (one swapped and the other not) and powered it up. The Starlink would attach for 30 seconds and then disconnect. I left it in this cycle for 3 hours and still no IP. I am mounting this on the roof of my van and my cable runs are extremely short. My gut feeling was that my power supply was too weak. I am plugging it into 15amp fused cigarette lighter socket. I bought a Mean well DDR120c and cranked it up to 50 volts and tried again but I am getting the same error. I was about to give up when I found a person using a 120volt to 48 volt stepdown transformer. I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully. There is obviously a difference in the 48 volts 3A coming from the 120 volt Power transformer and the Mean Well Converter at 48 volt 2.5 amps (besides the .5 amps) . The Mean Well has seemed to be a pretty dependable power supply for this MOD. I even tried to hook the Mean Well directly to a 12 car battery. Using 12 gauge wire all around. Any ideas about why my 12 volt to 48 volt system wont stay connected. but my 120 volt to 48 volt system works great?

![Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 9 18 33 PM](https://

user-images.githubusercontent.com/124229469/216238183-446fe523-4a24-413c-9be1-24a14363dda8.png)

I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully.

One potential weak point is the ethernet transformer chip used inside the PoE. There are a lot of these chips around but most of them only have a "30W" or "60W" capability. So far as I can see the transformer must be one of the newest ones designed for the highest power (class 8) 802.3bt; these have to support a continuous 99W at the PSE and I think that means 960mA/pair or 480mA/conductor. Even then, if the numbers are right, the transformer is being run over-powered. You seem to have the right Tycon injector, but they may use that box for lower power devices. Check what you have against the Tycon data:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/PoE-Injectors_c_172-1-2.html

(Search for the actual model number on that page.) I intend to double check the McCown and the Tycon (I have both) but the number given above for the McCown injector seems to correspond to a Pulse Electronics 30W (802.3at) transformer.

It would be a useful test to swap the old Tycon injector back without changing the setup to see if this has failed or not.

The likely failure point is startup of a cold dish. If "snow melt" is turned on this will draw maximum power. It's not clear to me that higher voltage helps here; heaters are normally purely passive so a higher voltage increases the current requirement in proportion. There are cheaper testers on Amazon that can test the actual power delivery:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B46PMV3

But if the current goes over the limit something is likely to break... Check the output voltage of the two 48V supplies under load; at 2.4A. I do have one of those supplies (the first, switching, 3A/48V PSU) so I'm going to try to test that. It would be interesting to know which of them generates the lower voltage. The regular (non-switching) PSU will probably also have considerable ripple; who knows, that might help!

I couldn't work out which systems you have working. It seems the 48V/3A didn't work and neither did the Mean Well initially. They are both switching PSUs. Then there was a step down transformer system which seems to be the approach in your picture. Those are pretty hard to come by these days and the peak voltage one would deliver is almost 68V; the actual output depends on the voltage regulator inside the PSU, if there is one.

I've also encountered one 12V high current (10A or something like that) switching PSU which could not supply a low current (below 1A); it would just stop working. This seems to be a feature of high current PSUs, but it may be just a fault in the one I was trying to use.

In any case I have snow melt turned off; it's a persistent setting on the StarLink antenna (the dish). I might experiment with turning it back on but only if I have it powered through the StarLink kit (i.e. from the router). I want to find out what the actual current draw is first and I want to compare it with "preheat". There's no pre-heat only setting though, so if "snow melt" draws the kind of current people are suggesting it's pretty much useless without special ethernet transformers. I've seen 185W quoted, but that is almost twice what Oleg Kutkov quotes the router PSE as being able to output (120W):

https://olegkutkov.me/2022/04/10/initial-analysis-of-the-starlink-router-gen2/

It may be that the router has a slow turn-on or, indeed, maybe it is doing full 802.3bt with LLDP to negotiate power with the antenna? I'm still at the stage of needing to make test leads (SPX to RJ45) before I can find out more.

McCown 800-GIGE-APC transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CN1s0zdzvzn7WFps7vP6IgSC8o0_H3rV/view?usp=share_link
Dishpowa transformer data sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10vF1zdiZoWkZGcegcOFoDLXQ6KCrkKwQ/view?usp=share_link

I blew out a Tycon POE-INJ-1000-WT transformer (unmarked part) and it shorted 1,2,4,5 to 7,8 and killed my dishy permanently. I could not find any fault in my wiring - I think the transformer chip simply overloaded.

Note that Tycon make two of these:

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wt Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC power on all 8 wires. 1245(+) 3678(-). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT. Ubiquiti airFiber

https://www.tyconsystems.com/poe-inj-1000-wtx Gigabit Passive PoE Injector/Splitter with LED Indicator. Injects or splits DC Power on all 8 wires. 1278(-) 3645(+). Wire terminal connector. 2.25A. VIN=VOUT

The first (without the "x") is the standard 802.3af etc approach which puts the power across the transmit/receive pairs of a single channel; 12-36 (orange green) is the first channel used in half-duplex (4 conductor) pairs and 45-78 is the second channel for full duplex

The second one puts the positive on the middle four pins, 4536 (red, green pairs) and the negative on the outer (1278, orange brown) pairs. So plugging a WTx injector into any regular device with 4 pair PoE put a positive and a negative together on the pairs which normally supply either the positive or negative. On a diode protected PD this is no problem; the diodes route the positive or negative to the right place. On something with no diodes there is a short circuit that will instantly blow out the ethernet transformers in one or both ends (or a mixture of the two).

The StarLink is, I believe (DO NOT RELY ON THIS STATEMENT - check yourself) 1236+, 4578- Note that the WTs both put useable power on each half-duplex but that StarLink does not. The Tycon WT has 12(+)36(-), 45(+)78(-) and the Wtx has 12(-)36(+), 45(+)78(-) the latter corresponds to T-568A where green/orange (12, 36) are swapped relative to T-568B. Whereas StarLink has 12(+)36(+) 78(-)45(-) One half-duplex pair-of-pairs is wired positive, the other negative. Presumably there is some benefit to this...

The obvious protection is to wire four IN4005 diodes in the right direction from the PSU to the center taps of the transformers in the PoE injector. That protects both ends (PD and PSE) except that the PD might end up with positive and negative supply rails swapped. Better is to protect the PD, but that increases the power requirement at the PSE injection point (until if the diodes are in the PSE, before the injection point).

EDIT (important): diodes in the PSE will not help. The diodes have to be in the PD to prevent miswiring at the PSE or PD end from connecting the PSE + directly to the PSE -. Given that @OleksandrSimakov apparently fried at least the PSE with the Tycon WTX it certainly sounds like the Dish does not have protection diodes. Aargh; they should have put protection diodes in and gone with a higher voltage; at least 57.6V. the diodes will output a small number of watts, but only if pre-heat or snow-melt is on when, surely, it doesn't matter...

Thanks all for the input. My working system is the 120volt to 48 volt transformer injecting a Tycon Poe-inj-1000-wt to the DIshy in Bridge mode with Snow melt OFF. I built three slightly different iterations of this system on different Amp rated 12 volt to 48 volt upconverters - Two of the Cheopo Buck converters (one 3amp and the other 4 amp) and then the Mean Well. I quadrupled tested every termination , and made sure all my cables were stock Starlink sheilded Cat 5 and all my power cables were 12 gauge and direct connected them to a 12volt 110ah lithium battery. All of them failed to hold a connection to the Dishy. As I see it there are only three variable here - Power, POE and Cable resistance. Changing the power source to 120 volt step down transformer solved the problem . I’m thinking there is a problem with my POE when its powered with a 12 volt to 48 step up. I ordered a McCown 800-GIGE-poe with the built in surge protection hoping this may solve the problem. I’ve heard the Dishypowa POE is also very good but I haven’t been able to order one. Getting this to work is more educational at this point since I’ve spent so much money trying to save pennies in power trying not using an inverter . I really appreciate the help. I’ll post when I receive the 800-GIGE-POE and hook to the Mean Well. Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2023 9:14 AM To: jbowler ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @jbowler commented on this gist.

…

________________________________ I bought one and hooked it to a brand new Tycon POE Injector and it attached and acquired an IP successfully. One potential weak point is the ethernet transformer chip used inside the PoE. There are a lot of these chips around but most of them only have a "30W" or "60W" capability. So far as I can see the transformer must be one of the newest ones designed for the highest power (class 8) 802.3bt; these have to support a continuous 99W at the PSE and I think that means 960mA/pair or 480mA/conductor. Even then, if the numbers are right, the transformer is being run over-powered. You seem to have the right Tycon injector, but they may use that box for lower power devices. Check what you have against the Tycon data: https://www.tyconsystems.com/PoE-Injectors_c_172-1-2.html (Search for the actual model number on that page.) I intend to double check the McCown and the Tycon (I have both) but the number given above for the McCown injector seems to correspond to a Pulse Electronics 30W (802.3at) transformer. It would be a useful test to swap the old Tycon injector back without changing the setup to see if this has failed or not. The likely failure point is startup of a cold dish. If "snow melt" is turned on this will draw maximum power. It's not clear to me that higher voltage helps here; heaters are normally purely passive so a higher voltage increases the current requirement in proportion. There are cheaper testers on Amazon that can test the actual power delivery: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B46PMV3 But if the current goes over the limit something is likely to break... Check the output voltage of the two 48V supplies under load; at 2.4A. I do have one of those supplies (the first, switching, 3A/48V PSU) so I'm going to try to test that. It would be interesting to know which of them generates the lower voltage. The regular (non-switching) PSU will probably also have considerable ripple; who knows, that might help! I couldn't work out which systems you have working. It seems the 48V/3A didn't work and neither did the Mean Well initially. They are both switching PSUs. Then there was a step down transformer system which seems to be the approach in your picture. Those are pretty hard to come by these days and the peak voltage one would deliver is almost 68V; the actual output depends on the voltage regulator inside the PSU, if there is one. I've also encountered one 12V high current (10A or something like that) switching PSU which could not supply a low current (below 1A); it would just stop working. This seems to be a feature of high current PSUs, but it may be just a fault in the one I was trying to use. In any case I have snow melt turned off; it's a persistent setting on the StarLink antenna (the dish). I might experiment with turning it back on but only if I have it powered through the StarLink kit (i.e. from the router). I want to find out what the actual current draw is first and I want to compare it with "preheat". There's no pre-heat only setting though, so if "snow melt" draws the kind of current people are suggesting it's pretty much useless without special ethernet transformers. I've seen 185W quoted, but that is almost twice what Oleg Kutkov quotes the router PSE as being able to output (120W): https://olegkutkov.me/2022/04/10/initial-analysis-of-the-starlink-router-gen2/ It may be that the router has a slow turn-on or, indeed, maybe it is doing full 802.3bt with LLDP to negotiate power with the antenna? I'm still at the stage of needing to make test leads (SPX to RJ45) before I can find out more. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4457507> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXKQD3HKK357354YWFTWVPTODBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues:

1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe
2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly
3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires

Results:
With 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-)

• the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured.
• the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated
• the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

• "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured.
• 0.0W power measurement
• The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

Didn't even know there was such an instrument. I was thinking that another way to decrease the power draw of Dishy besides turning snow melt off would be to disconnect the motors . I plan to flat mount it anyways . It’s works very dependably on the 120 volt to 48 volt transformer direct to Tyco Poe. Seems the Poe is working. Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

…

________________________________ From: torrmundi ***@***.***> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:04:39 PM To: torrmundi ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.

________________________________ I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues: 1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe 2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly 3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires Results: with 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-) * the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured. * the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated * the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated with Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-) * "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured. * 0.0W power measurement * The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan @jbowler<https://github.com/jbowler> did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459194> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXIDUMW7QZVRA4RYSMDWVWFIRBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

Didn't even know there was such an instrument. I was thinking that another way to decrease the power draw of Dishy besides turning snow melt off would be to disconnect the motors . I plan to flat mount it anyways . It’s works very dependably on the 120 volt to 48 volt transformer direct to Tyco Poe. Seems the Poe is working. Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others. Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef
…
________________________________ From: torrmundi @.> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 3:04:39 PM To: torrmundi @.> Cc: Comment @.>; Manual @.> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.
________________________________ I purchased a POE Tester (Noyafa NF488S) from Amazon. There were issues: 1. cannot test Starlink non-standard 4PPoe 2. does not measure standard 4PPoe power correctly 3. does not indicate positive or negative voltages on 4PPoe wires Results: with 4pair PoE injecter, Tycon, 1,2,4,5 (V+) 3,6,7,8 (V-) * the tester showed midspan with all 8 lines as active, but not which are positive or negative. Voltage was measured. * the tester, with no PD connected, showed that 15W was being dissipated * the tester, with a PD connected (Peplink Max BR1 Mini), showed that 19W was dissipated with Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-) * "unknown" was displayed, and no lines as active. Voltage was measured. * 0.0W power measurement * The cable was able to be used for data transmission, with the tester inserted midspan @jbowlerhttps://github.com/jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459194 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXIDUMW7QZVRA4RYSMDWVWFIRBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

Did you compare exact voltage and amperage numbers as well as fluctuation between the 12 vs 120 converter? My guess is the 12 to 48 is not holding high enough volts or amps for the dishy's power regulator. And if you are running close to the edge on that power regulator that potentially creates more heat and stress.

@jbowler did you use the TRENDnet Inline PoE Tester, TC-NTP1 successfully?

@torrmundi: I haven't received it yet, it should come early next week. I did also order one of the NF488 testers, possibly a slightly different revision since mine is NF-488 not NF-488S. Mine seems to work better than yours; I've done limited testing and it correctly identifies 802.3af and at, mode A (4 pairs, channel 1) and AB (both channels). It doesn't support 802.3bt and plugged into a bt switch it reports it as 802.3at with "4 pairs". The power rating when used with a PD on the PoE "Out" RJ45 seems credible. I suggest testing the accuracy of the DC out and DC in ports if you have a load tester (not that they are necessarily that accurate ;-). It's certainly a return if that doesn't work. On mine the "loopback" port doesn't seem to work but that might be my managed switches rejecting a loopback connector.

I believe the polarity of the channels is reported by the voltage; plugged into a switch with 802.3af I get a negative voltage but into the 802.3bt capable switch the voltage was positive. It would be much better if the pins were displayed with "+", "-" or " " underneath. I haven't tested with passive injectors yet; I've only had the tester 12 hours.

With Starlink cable, midspan, 1,2,3,6 (V+) 4,5,7,8 (V-)

I'm not surprised that gave "unsupported"; channel 1 is (all) positive and channel 2 negative. I haven't hacked the test leads for StarLink together yet but my default would be to fabricate swapped 36/45 pairs at both sides then I would expect to see the tester report something; the swapping makes the tester see 1,2,4,5(V+) 3,6,7,8(V-) which corresponds to the POE-INJ-1000-WT that I have and 802.3a[ft] modes A and B. BTW Tycon sells these injectors direct for $10 each and currently has 2683 (or so) in stock. Shipping is $6 USPS; cheaper than anything on Amazon.

As for the McCown I couldn't access your links; Google Drive shareable links normally work just fine for me so I think they might be something else (like the thing on the address bar when a shareable link is created?) I did get home and eyeball my own McCown 800-GIGE-POE-APC (i.e. the Cat5e APC version, not the Cat6 APC version). The transformer is a LINK-PP LP6062ANL:

http://www.link-pp.com/?product/201408082292.html

From the datasheet the current rating (for PoE) is "720mA continuous over 4 pairs", further described on the second page as "[e]xceeds 802.3at requirements with up to 720mA DC supply current over 2 or 4 pairs". This is better than the Pulse Electronics H6062NL component which it claims it's a clone of:

https://productfinder.pulseelectronics.com/part/h6062nl

The datasheet for that states, "DC CURRENT/VOLTAGE RATING 350mA MAX @57V (CONTINUOUS)", I assume that is per pair so a total current delivery/return of 700mA for 39W. So this is not an 802.3bt capable part. The maximum using 60V would be under 45W at the PSE (less at the dish of course).

I assume the Tycon parts, despite being so cheap, are using 802.3bt capable transformers; the input is up to 2.25A at 80V which means that can handle 180W at the PSE. I haven't worked out how to pop the Tycon box open yet but I think I will use the McCown for testing since the jumpers allow testing on individual pairs and I have Snow Melt off, then use a Tycon and probably order a couple more for disassembly/testing.

@morehardware:

Maybe there are different qualities of Poe that may only work with certain “types” of 48 volt dc power. I’m puzzled why 48 volts doesn’t work with 12 volt sources switch the TYCO in my situation and works for others.

I find it very puzzling too. I second @WIMMPYIII's recommendation to check the voltages under load in both cases. The NF-488 has DC barrel jacks for testing a PSU connected to "DC In" and a powered device, in this case the Tycon PSE, connected to "DC Out". It can also be tested using two Tycons back-to-back (POE IN/OUT connected together) and a load tester on the "DC IN/OUT" of the second, but load testers may be more difficult because of the higher powers involved; you need to know the approximate current load in the failing system first, or just wing it and hope you don't destroy the load tester.

You are chaining a "boost" converter (12->48V) to one or more "buck" converters in the dish/antenna. The latter converts the 48V back to electronics levels, typically 3.3V or 5V these days. The snow melt may also use a buck or even boost converter but is more likely IMO to just use the original 48V switched on and off as required (possibly using PWM). There should be no problem with any of this, e.g:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/231668/chaining-buck-converters

The connection, via the PSE and the ethernet transformers, ends up being just a pair of conductors stranded out of four of the eight 24AWG Cat5e conductors each. There's no net inductance in the leads and relatively small capacitance from the high frequency RC filters (resistor->capacitor->ground) used to remove spurious in-phase signals on the conductor pairs.

Buck and boost circuits are pretty much identical, e.g. see the circuit diagrams here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck%E2%80%93boost_converter

You could try checking the capacitor on the output side of your boost converter. It has to be sufficient to support the peak load current but, since it is feeding into a boost converter which has its own output capacitance excessive ripple may only cause a drop-out intermittently. To test a system under load put an AC voltmeter across the output of the boost converter. Better use a multi-meter that supports display of AC and DC voltage at the same time (Flukes do, others do too). Best is to find peak-peak of the AC but RMS x 1.4 (sqrt(2)) is probably enough for this. If the AC can reduce the DC below some critical voltage the buck converter on the other end might be unable to keep up the output.

It's also possible to use a Fluke or other multimeter with "fast min-max" to try to detect the minimum voltage over an extended period, but I don't know if that would be fast enough to see a significant dropout in the voltage.

I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

This is great stuff. Thank you. I will measure the amp draw on both the power supplies ( working and non working) to try to discern the difference . I found this in a Reddit thread that is also discussing the inadequacies of third party power supplies to Starlink . This 12 volt one seems to work better than the Mean Well. DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A https://a.co/d/8AmKplF This worked where a mean well did not.

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________________________________ From: WIMMPYIII ***@***.***> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:29:16 AM To: WIMMPYIII ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @WIMMPYIII commented on this gist.

________________________________ I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459920> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXKZP77LQFWYUDVSGJDWV2UY3BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

More on the NF-488 and also on the StarLink router/antenna, though I will enter that separately.

My NF-488 is one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GK7CGGD

I've done more extensive testing including, finally, putting it between the router and the dish. I did see the strange wattage behavior @torrmundi reported but I still find the device useful. No doubt one of the Fluke testers would be a lot better but that is comparing something that costs $36 with something that costs $1400. I hope to receive the TRENDNet tester on Monday and that may better handle the protocol stuff than the NF-488 because supposedly it recognizes 802.3bt.

On the NF-488 most of the stuff works just fine; cable continuity is clear and precise, though it doesn't recognize a cross-over cable (it does correctly display the cross-over). DC power tests seems fine, as I said before. The loopback is apparently non functional; I can here a relay clicking on when I activate it but none of the switches I've tried give any indication of a loopback.

The device uses different RJ-45 jacks for different tests, which is ok, however the PoE tests use the same two ports and this can create wackiness; entering the PoE test mode starts the "inline test", pressing "OK" does the PSE test. Pressing OK during an "inline" test, i.e. while a PD is connected to the PoE out jack, somtimes, often, messes things up. It's not just the tester that gets messed up, well, probably it's not the tester at all, but the PSE and the PD can end up behaving weirdly.

The tester displays a "wattage" in both PSE test and in-line mode. In the PSE test mode it's not clear what the wattage is, maybe it's some guess at the PSE supported wattage because sometimes the number is very high even though there is no load (other than the tester). E.g. 8.4W with one PSE (consistently) but only a couple of watts with others. The number is not useful.

The tester correctly identifies 802.3af and 802.3at PSEs. If correctly detects Mode A and Mode B, though it incorrectly calls Mode A (power on the data pairs) "End Point" and Mode B (power on the "spare" pairs) MidPoint. It seems from the Amazon page that the TRENDNet uses the same incorrect terminology though it does also include the Mode. It doesn't identify endpoint or midpoint PSEs, how could it? It also identifies "4-pair" PSEs and this is how 802.3bt supplies are listed (unless they swap into af or at mode).

With inline testing the power seems approximately right at least with the range of splitters I have; I don't have an 802.3bt capable splitter or, for that matter, a device that I can test with (except, maybe, the StarLink antenna). I get a credible, higher, value from the tester compared to what I get from my load. All my test splitters are buck converters; the test load gives me about 80% of the tester, which is reasonable for a cheap buck converter.

The NF-488 powers off after a while. This is fine because inline test just keeps on working; the NF-488 seems to appear as a purely passive implementation so it looks, so far as I can tell, like one of the back-to-back RJ-45 female-female connectors.

My best guess as to how the PoE inline measure is done is that the device uses a single Hall effect sensor (like in a DC current clamp ammeter). These devices have the problem of needing to be zeroed and there is no zero interface in the NF-488. They are also not very accurate at low current; 1W at 50V is only 20mA. It is conceivable that the device includes an ethernet transformer, I haven't tested whether it does, but given the apparently low accuracy this doesn't seem likely.

If my assumption is correct the NF-488 requires a "standard" arrangement of PoE on either one or both Ethernet channels. The StarLink trick of putting positive on channel 1 and negative on 2 will just cancel out in the power sensor and cause the NF-488 to see an unconnected PSE. I tested StarLink using reversed green/blue pairs and I got credible (though very interesting) results from the NF-488.

I can't wait 'til Monday when I get the TRENDNet 802.3bt capable tester. Almost as good as getting an ActionMan with an FGMP-15.

This is great stuff. Thank you. I will measure the amp draw on both the power supplies ( working and non working) to try to discern the difference . I found this in a Reddit thread that is also discussing the inadequacies of third party power supplies to Starlink . This 12 volt one seems to work better than the Mean Well. DC-DC Converter Module Boost DC Step Up Voltage Regulator CV Stabilizer Power Supply Module 10-60V to 12-97V 1500W 30A https://a.co/d/8AmKplF This worked where a mean well did not.
…
________________________________ From: WIMMPYIII @.> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:29:16 AM To: WIMMPYIII @.> Cc: Comment @.>; Manual @.> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @WIMMPYIII commented on this gist.
________________________________ I ordered this 10-20VDC to 52v booster i will try when i get some free time. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803129874148.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4459920 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXKZP77LQFWYUDVSGJDWV2UY3BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

I wonder how much heat these things produce at max dishy power? Is the fan needed with this level of draw? And what are people putting this into? An enclosure?

I tested the StarLink router PoE using the NF-488 PoE (et al.) tester which I described in my previous comment. I have the tester inserted into an Ethernet Dongle cord; this was simply the quickest way of doing it. I'm not going to describe how to put the tester inline here, it seems off topic, suffice to say that I took a mighty cleaver to the Ethernet Dongle cord, chopped it in two, sewed two shielded Cat5e jacks on the exposed ends and put the tester between them. The Cat5e jacks have the blue/green pairs reversed; so pins 4,5 are swapped with pins 3,6 (keep the striped/solid conductors alternating, though it doesn't matter much).

When this is done the NF-488 correctly recognizes the StarLink router as providing "4-pair" PoE and reports voltages and "wattages" which I believe. The "wattage" may well actually be a VA but it doesn't matter with regard to the load on the connections.

The reported wattages vary between around 20W and 66W. I don't know the averaging period, indeed these might be instantaneous values, but they consistently stick within that range and the voltages vary in proportion; pretty much a peak of 48V down to 47V (this is at the PSE of course).

When used as a tester for the router PSE, i.e. with the dish disconnected, the NF-488 cannot identify the PSE. It ends up saying that it is non-standard. During these tests the router maxes out at 2.8V; i.e. with the dish disconnected it supplies no power indicating that it is an active PSE. It may be 802.3bt, as Oleg KutKov suggested, but with wacky wiring; it may even be doing LLDP. This is part of the reason I want to test the setup with the TRENDNet product which, supposedly, handles 802.3bt.

With just the antenna connected and a break-out cable I was able to find the connectivity between the pairs and, most likely, a fault in my StarLink antenna. I measured the Ethernet Transformer resistances. This is across the StarLink 75ft cable, so the resistances I say included the cable. Three of the four pairs sat at around 7.5ᘯ, the fourth pair (78, brown) was an open circuit. I then measured the resistances between the windings. These were around 3.5ᘯ for the positive and negative pairs and around 33kᘯ between those pairs. It turned out that the brown-white connection is broken somewhere; so the brown is continuous and that supplies the DC power (so the negative is over three conductors, not four) but the second ethernet channel is broken. The StarLink antenna debug data backs this up:

{ "dish": { ... "ethSpeedMbps": 100,

There is no other information anywhere that I can see showing that the ethernet is half duplex! Nevertheless that is specific to my, broken, StarLink system. EDIT: it was my error, I had not completely punched down the brown-white wire in the Cat5e jack. I'm back to "ethSpeedMbps": 1000 now.

It is absolutely clear that the PD, the antenna, is an active PoE device. It's implementing some protocol, perhaps 802.3bt with modified wiring. It also doesn't have diode protection against reverse circuit; I was using a Fluke 183 to do the resistance tests and it did not show a diode in the wiring. The router does not implement 802.3af or 802.3at; I'm confident that the tester can detect that and my test was independent of the broken dish conductor/ethernet transformer.

A quick note on the TRENDnet TC-NTP1:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B46PMV3

It measures the two ethernet channels separately, so when I put it in my system with blue/green pairs swapped it gets mismatched channels. It still works, but it breaks the StarLink antenna data connection; my router reports that the WAN cable is not connected. It does seem to be more accurate on wattage than an inline NF-488 (compared to the DC port measurements from the NF-488). It would probably not work at all with the McCown setup (because the two channels have no net current flow each). Bottom line is it is probably not the right product for this thread. It does apparently manage to identify 802.3bt, however it is not able to get the StarLink router to offer power most likely because it draws power from the PSE and the router only offers 2.8V or so at startup.

Thank you, that's useful. I was thinking that the NF-488 could have implemented a poe power and voltage measurement by putting an Ethernet transformer chip between the two poe ports, and using a sensing resistance between the center taps of each port. It would not explain the large wattage offset when you only plug in a PSE, however.

…

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 7:24 PM John Bowler ***@***.***> wrote: ***@***.**** commented on this gist. ------------------------------ A quick note on the TRENDnet TC-NTP1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B46PMV3 It measures the two ethernet channels separately, so when I put it in my system with blue/green pairs swapped it gets mismatched channels. It still works, but it breaks the StarLink antenna data connection; my router reports that the WAN cable is not connected. It does seem to be more accurate on wattage than an inline NF-488 (compared to the DC port measurements from the NF-488). It would probably not work at all with the McCown setup (because the two channels have no net current flow each). Bottom line is it is probably not the right product for this thread. It does apparently manage to identify 802.3bt, however it is not able to get the StarLink router to offer power most likely because it draws power from the PSE and the router only offers 2.8V or so at startup. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4462327> or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMAIFEPRKDMPQBCYLXTWWGI2LBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS <https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub> .

Would it not be because the Dishy always engages the motors when you plug in as it boots up. I was thinking of doing an experiment where I put both power supplies on the Poe in parallel . Boot up Dishy and then remove the 120v one to see if the 12 volt will hold the connection with speed. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

________________________________ From: torrmundi ***@***.***> Sent: Monday, February 6, 2023 9:32:07 PM To: torrmundi ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @torrmundi commented on this gist.

________________________________ Thank you, that's useful. I was thinking that the NF-488 could have implemented a poe power and voltage measurement by putting an Ethernet transformer chip between the two poe ports, and using a sensing resistance between the center taps of each port. It would not explain the large wattage offset when you only plug in a PSE, however.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 7:24 PM John Bowler ***@***.***> wrote: ***@***.**** commented on this gist. ------------------------------ A quick note on the TRENDnet TC-NTP1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B46PMV3 It measures the two ethernet channels separately, so when I put it in my system with blue/green pairs swapped it gets mismatched channels. It still works, but it breaks the StarLink antenna data connection; my router reports that the WAN cable is not connected. It does seem to be more accurate on wattage than an inline NF-488 (compared to the DC port measurements from the NF-488). It would probably not work at all with the McCown setup (because the two channels have no net current flow each). Bottom line is it is probably not the right product for this thread. It does apparently manage to identify 802.3bt, however it is not able to get the StarLink router to offer power most likely because it draws power from the PSE and the router only offers 2.8V or so at startup. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4462327> or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AU7AEMAIFEPRKDMPQBCYLXTWWGI2LBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF> . You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS <https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub> .

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@morehardware: Would it not be because the Dishy always engages the motors when you plug in as it boots up.

This is my best guess too. My second best guess is that it fires up the antenna array trying to find all the satellites. If it is the motors that is an inductive load and it is pretty much certain that the NF-488 is outputting VA, not W. This doesn't matter from the point of view of frying the ethernet transformers; that depends on the amperage, but the currents I've seen are well within the range the Tycon supports. Since the peak seems to happen around 30s after boot it may be the cause of your problem.

I can't find any wisdom online about using a switching PSU with an inductive load. There is lots of stuff about switching the load itself of course, but I'm sure the antenna is set up to deal correctly with that. I also don't know from my experiments what the true maximum load, minimum voltage and maximum amperage are. Today's exciting job is to wire one of these into the power supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BGPG9NVR

This has minimum/maximum readouts with sub-second sampling; apparently below 0.4s. It's main display is an "instantaneous" reading, actually the average over the last 0.4s but it retains averages since start-up as well.

@morehardware: Would it not be because the Dishy always engages the motors when you plug in as it boots up.

This is my best guess too. My second best guess is that it fires up the antenna array trying to find all the satellites. If it is the motors that is an inductive load and it is pretty much certain that the NF-488 is outputting VA, not W. This doesn't matter from the point of view of frying the ethernet transformers; that depends on the amperage, but the currents I've seen are well within the range the Tycon supports. Since the peak seems to happen around 30s after boot it may be the cause of your problem.

I can't find any wisdom online about using a switching PSU with an inductive load. There is lots of stuff about switching the load itself of course, but I'm sure the antenna is set up to deal correctly with that. I also don't know from my experiments what the true maximum load, minimum voltage and maximum amperage are. Today's exciting job is to wire one of these into the power supply:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BGPG9NVR

This has minimum/maximum readouts with sub-second sampling; apparently below 0.4s. It's main display is an "instantaneous" reading, actually the average over the last 0.4s but it retains averages since start-up as well.

It would be awesome to have these numbers documented. Warm boot up, sub 0 boot up, boot up simulating ice or physical block resisting the motor. Heater pre heat, heater auto. Heater off then back on after deep freeze.

I would be nice to have something that could to an actual log.
Saw this, i don't know of there are any cheaper options available.
https://powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio-pwrcheck-plus-usb

@WIMMPYIII; there is this too:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I2XI8P6

But, yeah, the dataloggers seem to be expensive. My Fluke 189 can log one channel (pretty much just logging A is sufficient) but I don't have the dongle/FlukeView sw. IRC my oscilloscope has some support for a serial connection and it has two channels. For the moment I'm logging by eye. This is what I have so far, just using the NF-488. First column is with it in in-line PoE mode, second is measuring the DC port to the Tycon. It has no min/max and the numbers change pretty fast. I'm tempted just to take a time lapse series of photographs, or a movie :-)

StarLink antenna power consumption
Tester	NF-488	NF-488 DC
Boot 0~15s	15W	2-7W
Boot 15s+	20-82W	15-90W
Boot around 30s for several s	82W	80W
After boot	20-60W	15-80W
External temperature (celsius)	-1C	-1C
With pre-heat	55-81W
Snowmelt	no change

Looks like 80w at the beginning and 20-60 after…. Makes sense . I think disconnecting the motors might be a lower draw … can you test again with motors unplugged ? Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

…

________________________________ From: John Bowler ***@***.***> Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 2:12:16 PM To: jbowler ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***>; Manual ***@***.***> Subject: Re: darconeous/rect-starlink-cable-hack.md @jbowler commented on this gist.

________________________________ @WIMMPYIII<https://github.com/WIMMPYIII>; there is this too: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I2XI8P6 But, yeah, the dataloggers seem to be expensive. My Fluke 189 can log one channel (pretty much just logging A is sufficient) but I don't have the dongle/FlukeView sw. IRC my oscilloscope has some support for a serial connection and it has two channels. For the moment I'm logging by eye. This is what I have so far, just using the NF-488. First column is with it in in-line PoE mode, second is measuring the DC port to the Tycon. It has no min/max and the numbers change pretty fast. I'm tempting just to take a time lapse series of photographs, or a movie :-) StarLink antenna power consumption Tester NF-488 NF-488 DC Boot 0~15s 15W 2-7W Boot 15s+ 20-82W 15-90W Boot around 30s for several s 82W 80W After boot 20-60W 15-80W External temperature (celsius) -1C -1C With pre-heat 55-81W Snowmelt no change — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/8c7899c4d2f849b881d6c43be55066ee#gistcomment-4463407> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A5TZOXLA5DQ4MTDOQVWKURDWWKNBDBFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFQKSXMYLMOVS2I5DSOVS2I3TBNVS3W5DIOJSWCZC7OBQXE5DJMNUXAYLOORPWCY3UNF3GS5DZVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTCNBSGQ2TCMRTU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

I think disconnecting the motors might be a lower draw … can you test again with motors unplugged ?

0.35A, 16.8W flat after stowing. No detectable power/current increase using the NF-488 while stowing or while unstowing. The NF-488 readings jump around continuously while the dish is unstowed. I'm not going to take the antenna apart; if something goes wrong with it I want to be able to ask StarLink for a replacement. Curiously I got the replacement router today and they didn't ask for an RMA of the old one, presumably it is as cheap and unrepairable as it looks. So I need to test that as well then I'll put the new tester inline after that, along with data logging the startup costs with a camera. With any luck the output will be more stable, if not it may be necessary to use an oscilloscope to make sense of the power draw.